Related Post: What size jig heads for Bluegill and Crappie/Fished on a Fly Rod

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Originally Posted by Gigmaster

I wouldn't use any jig on a fly rod. Too heavy. Instead, just tie your pattern with a beadhead, or clouser eyes. It will cast much better, and move better in the water.

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I don't find that flys tied on micro jigs are any more difficult to cast than flies weighted with beadheads or dumbell eyes. And with the weight all the way forward and the hook eye position with the 90 degree jig hook can generate and undulating or jigging motion than is difficult to replicate with a beadhead or Clouser style tie.

Since I started experimenting with flies tied on jig heads a few years a go my angling buddies and I have found that in may situations, when the same pattern is tied beadhead style on a regular hook and on a micro fly jig head and fished side by side, the jig head version is often more productive. The jig head versions are also better for vertical drop presentations as the beadhead or clouser style ties tend to slide down at an angle when sinking and the jig head versions tend to sink more vertically. Most of our testing has been with largemouth bass, bluegill, and crappie. The use of jighead flies has produced the greatest improvement in catch rates for us when targeting bass and bluegill that are tucked into reeds where the most effective presentation is a vertical drop where the fly stays right against the cover as it falls through the water column.

But now we are getting into that same old argument about what constitutes fly fishing, and what constitutes a 'fly'. A 'vertical drop' is not fly fishing, even if you use a fly rod. . . That's jig fishing. And using a molded weighted head is a jig, not a fly. And there are people who would argue it the other way, as well. I use my fly rod with live bait sometimes, but I do not consider that fly fishing. I just like my fly gear.

I would do much better with a micro-jig with my ultralight spinning rods, than with my fly rod. I do sometimes put an ultralite spinning reel on my fly rod. It feels like you can cast a superlight bait or jig for a mile with this set-up, and it is very effective behind tailraces, but it is not fly fishing.

Just my opinion, for what it's worth.

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Originally Posted by tailingloop

I don't find that flys tied on micro jigs are any more difficult to cast than flies weighted with beadheads or dumbell eyes. And with the weight all the way forward and the hook eye position with the 90 degree jig hook can generate and undulating or jigging motion than is difficult to replicate with a beadhead or Clouser style tie.

Since I started experimenting with flies tied on jig heads a few years a go my angling buddies and I have found that in may situations, when the same pattern is tied beadhead style on a regular hook and on a micro fly jig head and fished side by side, the jig head version is often more productive. The jig head versions are also better for vertical drop presentations as the beadhead or clouser style ties tend to slide down at an angle when sinking and the jig head versions tend to sink more vertically. Most of our testing has been with largemouth bass, bluegill, and crappie. The use of jighead flies has produced the greatest improvement in catch rates for us when targeting bass and bluegill that are tucked into reeds where the most effective presentation is a vertical drop where the fly stays right against the cover as it falls through the water column.

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One of the good things that happens when fishing a light jig( or hook up fly) is that you tend to hook more crappie in the top of there mouth which results in fewer fish lost

If a vertical drop is not fly fishing then I guess high stick nymphing is also not fly fishing. What is the difference between placing a bead on a hook and having one already molded to it? I see little difference. To each his own. There are those that believe fly fishing only includes dry flies. That is a recent evolution in fly fishing. For hundreds of years there were only wet flies.

In fly fishing, fish are caught by using Artificial flies that are cast with a fly rod and a fly line. The fly line (today, almost always coated with plastic) is heavy enough to send the fly to the target. The main difference between fly fishing and spin or bait fishing is that in fly fishing the weight of the line carries the hook through the air, whereas in spin and bait fishing the weight of the lure or sinker at the end of the monofilament or braided line gives casting distance. Artificial flies are of several types; some imitating an insect (either flying or swimming), others a bait fish or crustacean, others attractors are known to attract fish although they look like nothing in nature. Flies can be made either to float or sink, and range in size from a few millimeters to 30 cm long; most are between 1 and 5 cm.
Artificial flies are made by fastening hair, fur, feathers, or other materials, both natural and synthetic, onto a hook. The first flies were tied with natural materials, but synthetic materials are now popular and prevalent. Flies are tied in sizes, colors and patterns to match local terrestrial and aquatic insects, baitfish, or other prey attractive to the target fish species.

Using a micro jig the fly line still carries the fly and therefor its fly fishing by the definition !

Vertical fly fishing = high sticking no matter what you use...

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Originally Posted by lastchance

If a vertical drop is not fly fishing then I guess high stick nymphing is also not fly fishing. What is the difference between placing a bead on a hook and having one already molded to it? I see little difference.

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Agreed, what about czech nymphing where no fly line is used, only mono out the tip top? World competition fly fishing won by this method!!!
Flies started out with fur and feather but along came artificial materials.
A fly tied with only artificial materials such as rubber or flash is frowned upon by some.
Poppers for instance are tied with deer hair to float but what about the cork foam or plastic heads.
There are purists but where do you draw the line?
I personally love casting a line with a "fly" on the end. Some use moulded plastic flies or lures, is that still fly fishing?

In high stick nymphing, you are still using a fly. Not a jig. And you stated it perfectly. A fly is tied. A jig is molded. I have fished micro jigs on my fly rod, just as I also use live bait with my fly rod sometimes. It works, but it doesn't 'feel' like fly fishing. It feels like I am using my fly rod as a spinning rod of sorts (and I do use a spinning reel on my fly rod sometimes.....), just the opposite of when I have used a casting bubble or float to cast flies with my spinning rod. It works, but neither of these 'feels' like fly fishing. I am not saying I am right and everybody else is wrong. It's just a personal thing. And as far as I am concerned, anything that is legal, and puts fish in the basket is OK by me. It's just that traditional fly fishing has a 'feel' to it that is almost spiritual, sort of like doing Tai Chi in the water. When I use other things besides flies, that feeling just isn't there, for me. It's just catching fish (which is also OK).

Fly fishing means a lot more to me than just catching fish, and it is very important to me.....as I said, almost spiritual. It has allowed me to function in a world that I often feel ill-equipped to live and work in. When I fly fish, I feel like I belong, even if just for a little while. So if am a little over-protective of it, well.... I come by it honestly. And I mean no harm to anyone, ever. To each, his own, with my heartfelt blessings.

Maybe I am just weird. It wouldn't be the first time I have been a square peg in a round hole.

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Originally Posted by lastchance

If a vertical drop is not fly fishing then I guess high stick nymphing is also not fly fishing. What is the difference between placing a bead on a hook and having one already molded to it? I see little difference. To each his own. There are those that believe fly fishing only includes dry flies. That is a recent evolution in fly fishing. For hundreds of years there were only wet flies.

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Originally Posted by Gigmaster

Maybe I am just weird. It wouldn't be the first time I have been a square peg in a round hole.

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Weird? I don't think so. We are all individuals and are free ( within the law ) to choose the angling techniques, tackle, and environment from which we derive the greatest enjoyment.

Your opinions are well stated. And I think everyone agrees that flies ( or lures ) tied on micro jigheads and fished with fly tackle are effective fish catchers whatever the label applied to that combination and technique.

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Originally Posted by lastchance

I should have made that clear on my previous post. What size jig heads do you recommend for throwing with a fly rod.

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Let's clarify what you refer to as a jig head. Is it the moulded and painted fish head on a jig (90 deg hook bend) and a rubber premoulded curly tail or minnow body affixed or is it the 90 deg hook bend with a lead ball moulded onto the bend to which you dress up as a fly?
If the objection above by Gigmaster is the moulded weight what about a bead or bead chain tied at the bend on a previously unweighted not premoulded hook?
I personally like the 60 deg bend on a hook to allow a hook up ride, would that be a jig??

I bought some size 12- 1/124 oz. plain lead, round ball jigs. I thought I'd dress them the same way I dress any fly. I call that a jig fly. That's just my opinion.