I'm looking for opinions or reviews on the Scaddon NFO Outlaw Escape

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Originally Posted by Fly Goddess

Dub we have had this talk before, the oars in the first pictures are the same as Daves. He too offers upgrades to those who feel they need it.
from me on this boat.

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I have only been floating the rivers in one person watercraft for 20 years. Being the novice, I am one of those people that "feel" I need the oar upgrade. Using the CHEAP oars can get expensive for me as I will end up replacing them quite often if I use them on the rivers. Being a novice and all. Unlike the pros who never ever dip an oar too deep or at the wrong time, I sometimes mess up. Glad I got the upgrades and carry a spare so my trip isnt ruined.



A buddy and I used a Scadden for two years. Anyone who says it is not made of quality is wrong. Very manueverable. The only thing I didnt like, was lack of room on the back for cargo. For multiday trips, I like the extra room on the back of the WM Kodiak. For single day floats the Scadden and Water Masters are top notch.

Ofcourse these are only opinions from a novice. I would hate to paint myself as an expert.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f3.../Bob/005-2.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f3.../Bob/004-1.jpg

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Originally Posted by DUB

I have only been floating the rivers in one person watercraft for 20 years. Being the novice, I am one of those people that "feel" I need the oar upgrade. Using the CHEAP oars can get expensive for me as I will end up replacing them quite often if I use them on the rivers. Being a novice and all. Unlike the pros who never ever dip an oar too deep or at the wrong time, I sometimes mess up. Glad I got the upgrades and carry a spare so my trip isnt ruined.



A buddy and I used a Scadden for two years. Anyone who says it is not made of quality is wrong. Very manueverable. The only thing I didnt like, was lack of room on the back for cargo. For multiday trips, I like the extra room on the back of the WM Kodiak. For single day floats the Scadden and Water Masters are top notch.

Ofcourse these are only opinions from a novice. I would hate to paint myself as an expert.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f3.../Bob/005-2.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f3.../Bob/004-1.jpg

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Maybe I missed the part of someone calling you a novice, but nice boat and oars. Is that the Renegade? The Aluminum oars are standard and made for easy packing. Remember, a large majority that buy NFO foat stillwater and they really don't need the upgrades, so why should they pay for them. I went with the ultra light oars on my Reny, XX Assault and the Tye Dyed carbon on my X5. Plus a 5hp on the X5.

I don't complain on the room in the back, but my dog is a little cramped if I put a motor and battery on.

While in Idaho last year, I passed a gentleman and his son. They were floating WM. He noticed me fly past him so he asked me how I liked my boat. I, of course said I love everything about it. He replied (his words) he bout the WM about 5 years ago, but they are slugs on stillwater. They do not cut through the water, but look at the design. He was sold on both the Reny and the XX.

Dave also added an extra layer of material on the bottom of the tubes. Skid plate so to speak, and they are replaceable.

As Mojo mentioned, some accessories are from China, but also NSR. Dave has a deal with NRS that they share ideas and some hardware LIKE the oar mounts and the valves. The Valves are not cheap.

Now the XX has all sorts of room.

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Originally Posted by Fly Goddess

First off, note the negative responces you get about NFO are people that heard it from a friend.

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Negative responses, or just some personal experiences?:)

My best friend and next door neighbor in MT bought a Skykomish Sunrise from NFO 3 years ago. I spent the better part of a day helping him assemble that boat. The assembly instructions that came with the boat were very poorly written, and the frame was either designed, or manufactured, improperly so that it was impossible to assemble as received. My friend called Dave Scadden on the phone (in my presence) and Scadden said that these particular frame components sometimes had to be bent until they fit. So, we bent it until it fit together. It was a frustrating experience for both of us, that we still talk about from time to time.

Also, the anchor that should have been included with the boat was inexplicably missing from the shipment. I helped unpack the boat from box, and I was present when my friend telephoned to report this missing anchor. I heard from my friend immediately following the phone conservation that Scadden promised to mail an anchor to him promptly. Without going into all the subsequent details, it reportedly took three more phone calls to NFO/Scadden and as many weeks until the anchor got shipped (I was there when it finally arrived).

Another good friend and neighbor of mine is a commercial airline pilot. He also bought a Scadden boat that had a missing component when it arrived in the mail. Within a day of receiving the shipment, this friend told me that he telephoned Scadden to report the missing component, and right afterwards told me he felt as if Scadden had accused him of lying about this missing item in his shipment. (You're absolutely right - I heard this one from a friend - and one that I trust and believe.)

As Scadden was coming to MT within a few days for the Federation of Flyfishers Conclave, my friend arranged to meet Scadden there in person. I went with my friend when he met Scadden, and the issue was subsequently resolved to my friend's satisfaction, with Scadden soon thereafter shipping him the missing item.

John

p.s. to Mojo - Yes, I have seen the boat (Renegade) personally.

Sounds like your neighbors need to talk to one another:cool: As you say, it was resolved. The anchor is an accessory. Maybe Dave didn't have one in stock, I don't know, as I said, customer service does need some attention.
As for the frame issue....that is the same frame I have for my X5. Not including foot pegs, it is three pieces. Add the slide out deck and bar. Pretty easy to put together. But, I agree the instructions could be confusing to some.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f1...5/IMG_1114.jpg

What was the problem, the slide out deck? Because they did have a problem with the manufaturer of that frame. The Jig got slightly out. As you say, a little bending and a little wax after the thrird time, sliding like a dream. New X5 frames, the foot pegs are part of the frame.

I do know, many of the dissatisfied comments are self imposed. Remember Mike Nell? Not saying that is the case here. Again, I understand there are some issues at times with NFO. I can also say I have owned six other Scaddens and currently own three and I have never had any issue getting what I need. When I ordered the XX, he was out of clips for the seat, so he sent me a demo temporarily plus two brand new seats. Three days later, there was the clips, and he told me to keep the seat. So, in over 20 years I have been pretty happy. I do wish I had never sold the Freestyle H3 though.

As for rolling over in a current of a river, your feet are up on the bar so you pretty much ride it out like a pontoon, but I do think anything under 8' is a bit short for white water. That is me personally, they seem to have no problem;)

Thanks for weighing in here Fly Godess. Just a heads up to the others...I have been in contact with FG and got a lot of my questions answered. Thanks, Joni! :D ...and Thanks Dun!

Thanks for all the input on here but, by the time I'm ready to I ask a question here in the forum, I'm really looking for first hand knowledge. I am not really interested in opinions gathered from hearsay or without direct first hand experience.

Trust me, I do my homework. You should know that I worked as an outfitter for a number of years. Among other things, I tested, purchased and sold high end canoes, kayaks, inflatables, paddles etc, etc. I have a pretty solid knowledge base in that department. I have already formed opinions and ideas about other craft like WM and WS. They were great boats when I first started looking, a few years ago. They did everything I wanted in a fly fishing watercraft. There wasn't anything else out there that turned my crank at the time. There were a couple of things about them however, that caused me to hold off, such as the absence of rocker (important for easy maneuverability) and the cost.

Recently the frame-less Scaddon boats came to my attention. (I'm not sure where I've been but I slept through something!! :p) They seemed to address the issues I had with other craft. I also gave a good hard look at the new Outcast OSC Commander which started this whole thing in the first place. It too met my needs and addressed the old issues... but then I saw the NFO Escape. Open front, (easier for landing big fish and getting in and out of) tracks well going forward or backwards. Nice rocker, light weight, packable ...there's a long list. It worked for me, but then in the last couple of days, with solid input from people who have used them and photos that let me understand the actual sizes and how that may pertain to me, I've come to the conclusion, that for my current needs, the NFO Renagede may be my best choice. Doesn't weigh much more, still in my comfort zone financially (just)...just have to save longer. Gives me more leg room, more gear room and the size feels a little more secure to me in moving water, a little more like a boat and less like a float tube...which I already have.

I don't feel at all comfortable taking my Fish Cat 4 down rivers. Canoes are getting to cumbersome. I hate to admit, I'm getting too old to kneel in one all day and then flip it up, get it to then on top of the vehicle at the end of the day...as much as I love my canoe, it's been spending more time in the shed and less time on the water each year. With the Fish Cat 4 I'm worried about sweepers on the waters I fish and having to keep my head turned at all times, because it only goes backwards. That's hard on my neck. It's fine for still water but its short comings there are that the only means of propulsion is flippers, so getting to the other side of a lake that's more than a few acres seems rather daunting and it's hard on the old knees. It also doesn't have much room for any gear and managing more than one rod is just about impossible.

I had already seen the Washington site and others before I came in here with my questions. Like with everything else...one has to way the negatives and the positives, as well as do the research. I noticed that most of the negitive comments came from people who never owned one and it was often stated " My friend said this, a person I know said that. Hearsay!! Its not allowed in court so why should I put any weight on it here.

Re: the valves...when I read the Washington site, it made me look into the valves. Hawkley Roberts has been in the business since 1941 and it's well established. This is the valve on the NFO boats. They are designed to release air when the pressure gets to high. A big plus in my book.
http://www.halkeyroberts.com/userfil...part_large.jpg
http://www.halkeyroberts.com/product...oat-valve.aspx
http://www.halkeyroberts.com/userfil...BVXX REV_G.pdf
http://www.halkeyroberts.com/userfil...NSBV-Rev_C.PDF

The Summit II valves I now see cropping up on some of the newer boats like the newer Outcasts:
http://images.nrsweb.nrsweb.com.edge...05_250x250.jpg
http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product.a...93&deptid=1030

I can't tell the difference.

Someone complained that you need an extra piece of tubing for this valve, to fill the Scaddon boats. You need that same piece of tubing to fill the seats on my Fish Cat tube. 15c worth of tubing is Not a deal breaker. Summit valves, same deal.

Those "cheap oars" are exactly the same as the ones that come with the WM and WS. I already came to the conclusion that I would probably want to upgrade, though I'm sure the ones that come with the boat will suffice in a pinch or if I'm trying to keep the weight down for a pack in.

About support: NFO is a small business. I know that means that I'm not dealing with a big company with lots of employees or a lot of inventory ready to ship at the drop of a hat. I know it means waiting sometimes, but it also means REAL personal service. What I know is Dave is a remarkable and inovative inflatable boat engineer/builder. Other companies copy him. Dave should know that the best advertizing is word of mouth...and I have a big one. :wink: I'm patient by nature, and I'm willing to try this out to get what I'm looking for. I also have my spidey fingers in a lot of pies out here...so he stands to reaps some benefits if I'm happy. So far I haven't had my mitts on one. When I finely get a hold of one, I'll do a proper review. Until then... it's save, save, save!

Mato, the frameless models do not use Halkey Roberts valves, they use Bravo. Reason, because they can be inflated is a LVM pump in or out. They are very cool. One button in the middle, push once its open, push again its closed. Much easier to inflate. BUT, make sure you put the cap on as one bump...... also, the little string that holds the cap is not a handle. Do not try to pick up by the cap.

As for Halkey and Summit. Basicall the same, but as you said, Halkey requires that tube, Summit requires an adaptor that twists in.

Joni -

If I was thinking of buying a Scadden boat, I would look to you as the best source of information about them available on the web.

Based on comments made on that other website regarding these Bravo valves 2 years ago:
See: http://www.washingtonflyfishing.com/...r-Valves/page2

"North Fork has 7 different fab shops and 42 employees and a number of various vendors that go into every boat we sell"

I'm curious. What is your business relationship with NFO?

Who ever said the valves were cheap has their you know what, up their you know where. Here it is:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...bravovalve.jpg $38.00 on ebay for two.

I can see where you would want to make sure the tether line is in good shape. Who lifts their boats with that???

My relationship, I am just a very satisfied customer and a very good friend of Dave and Larry. I have known them many years.
He offers a great product, but needs someone to do the TLC.
I also got to be long distance friends with Michael. He ended up loving the boat, but the problems he had was self imposed. He tried to lift the boat by the caps and the strings came undone.
The boats are made here, but where exactly will not be disclosed to anyone. The Seats are made either in New Mexico or China. People prefer the Asian made seat. Oars out sourced, frame outsourced but USA. Bags and accessories, out sourced.
Dave originally worked for Outcast. He was the designer. He chooses to keep the location of his boat top secret as people will and do steel his ideas.
Look at this, I had one back in 1999:
http://www.flyfishingconnection.com/.../escalade.html

Then look at this: http://www.outcastboats.com/outcast/...ult.aspx?id=43

Not sure when this came out but this year is the first I have seen it.

The Outcast model is new this year Joni. It just hit the internet a couple of weeks ago. You can certainly see the Scadden influence on the Outcast designs. Goes to show ya why secrecy is important and what marvelous a designer he is.