Anyone know a good source for spade tailing feathers or old capes that still have good spade feathers on them for tailing traditional catskill dry flies?
Thanks,
Michael
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Anyone know a good source for spade tailing feathers or old capes that still have good spade feathers on them for tailing traditional catskill dry flies?
Thanks,
Michael
Coq de Leon ?
Cheers,
Hans W
Hi,
You might find some on an older neck. You might also try finding a farmer with an old barnyard rooster. Maybe for sale? You can buy a neck from Denny, Conranch Hackle. He leaves the 'spade' hackle on the skin. Lastly, you could contact Charlie Collins, Collins Hackle. He sells spade tailing feathers.
Allan
Thanks Hans & Allan. I use Coq de Leon on most of my patters for tailing, I just wanted to stick to the traditional for my quill Gordon's and Hendricksons etc. I know Charlie will be at the Somerset show in a few weeks so I will see what he's got, if I have no luck i will contact Denny. Thanks Again
Warning - mild teasing ahead:Quote:
Originally Posted by mvalbano
Michael... if you really want to go traditional you should use very soft tailing fibers... as the really old American patterns, such as you mention, that I have seen and where possible handled had pretty soft quality tailing material :cool:
To wit:
http://www.classictrout.com/phpBB2/v...c.php?f=13&t=9
*teasing off*
Best of success getting the desired material.
Cheers,
Hans W
Thanks for the tip and the link Hans!
Hans is correct, I believe. Have previously posted that the Dette's wanted sort of softer tailing fibers which would "bend" rather than break the water's surface tension.
Michael,
The stuff Charlie Collins sells are scapular feathers, not true spades. The quality is outstanding for tailing - long and stiff fibers. I know I can get down to a #10 dry fly and at least some of the feathers could tail a #8 Mustad 94840. PM me your snail mail addy and I'll be happy to send you some; you can decide if it's what you're looking for.
Regards,
Scott
you could stop by the "Fly Fest 2013" (8th Annual)
Saturday Feb. 9th, 2013
Time: 10 a.m. - 4 p.m.
Place: Catskill Fly Fishing Center & Museum, Old Route 17, Livingston Manor, N.Y.
there will be alot of tyers (myself included) that could help you out.
Scott,Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottP
I think if you were to ask Charlie, Denny and other knowledgeable hackle breeders, you'd find that the 'scapular' feathers are the true 'spade' feathers. The ones on the sides of trimmed necks are really the underthroat and provide a heavy protection for the chicken. Feathers shaped similar to these scapular feathers appear in the space between the neck and the saddle although I don't think those feathers offer the length of barb that the scapular ones do. Regardless of the name, as you wrote, these feathers offer excellent tailing barbs.
Michael, not sure if the price and packaging has changed but Charlie stuffs a zip lock bag with these feathers and usually has them available at the show. You do have to clean them(the fuzz at the base) but here's a tip: some of that fuzz makes excellent dubbing.
Allan
Allan,Quote:
Originally Posted by Allan
These were the feathers I always thought were "spade"; thanks for the explanation. Those zip lock bags from Charlie provide an awful lot of feathers; I bought ginger, brown, dun and grizzly back in 2000 and I still have more than I'll ever use.
Regards,
Scott
Thanks Scott & Allan
I will visit Charlie at the Somerset show and see what he has. Allan, will you be attending the Fly Fest? If so I will introduce myself.
most fighting cocks are large birds and brown, but very nice to work with. there was a man on the way to oak orchard that had some birds. look for 55 gal barrels in the yard. the man i got them from quit when they raided the fights and they had to go to other state that still had fights. flyman 3
mvalbano,
Would like to say hello but I won't be at the show. Too far for a 1 day trip.
flyman3 - I've heard that same thing.
Allan
Spade feathers???
If one searches all names of bird feathers you will not find the term "Spade". The name, "Spade" is the only one recognized by fly tiers. Because we tiers are different we can call them anything we want, but to get all of us on the same page I think we all will agree the Spades are really scapular feathers. All birds have them, from the tiny Hummers on up to the Eagles. These feathers start out on the first joint of the wing top and gradually increase in size up to the backbone, and back down the other wing.
What is dry fly quality? All feathers have a stem. On each side of the stem we have barbs. On all bird feathers except "Genetics"
we find barbicles (velcro like hooks) on each side of the barbs. We have removed these barbicles from our fly tying roosters. Now as to what % of them has been removed, gives us different qualities of dry fly hackle. (Of course there is more to it than what I have stated but for now) Some feathers are almost 100% barbicle free, some only 50%. Normally on good quality dry fly hackle it is very high but on different locations on a bird there is a difference. I find on "Spades" the outer ends of most barbs may be barbicle free but not all the way in to the stem.
If one can obtain Genetic rooster wings you would find many tie able spades of the smaller sizes. I seldom sell wings but some breeders do. Many years ago before we had today's dry fly quality hackle we used barnyard roosters. (In Europe there was an abundance of fighting roosters and many colors we have today were given their present day names.) Most tying then was done with feathers from the Fighting Roosters. (Cock feathers, etc)
I know one can use any legally obtained feather to tie with. One does not need genetic hackle unless you want to tie dries.
When we process a rooster the first cut is made horizontally at the shoulder line. This just happens to be right through the center of the spades. So, about half are attached at the bottom of the cape and half to the top of the saddle. I do not remove them. So all of my capes & saddles have spades at no extra charge. Call these beautiful feathers what ever name you desire. They do make beautiful tailing and wings for some flies.
Tie more and go fishin
Denny
Down south you may see little A-frame shelters with the roosters nearby, they may be staked their. Is cock fighting legal anywhere? I know there were several big raid in the years shortly after I came to GA, as far as I know they have shut it down here. The first fly fishing/tying meeting I ever attended in the North GA mountains one of the presenters pulled a complete rooster skin from his kit and explained he had a friend that fought rooster, this was one of his losers.Quote:
Originally Posted by flyman 3
Maybe somebody has a diagram of a rooster skin to show us where we get our various feathers for tying.
Might be some confusion between "spey" hackle and "spade" hackle?
This crude picture is from Herter's old "Professional Fly Tyiing and Tackle Making" book.
http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/...psdcf5c1bd.jpg