NYMPH FISHING WITHOUT AN INDICATOR "101" - Readers cast (Warren Patterson) - Dec 19

NYMPH FISHING WITHOUT AN INDICATOR "101"


I have read several "posts" on FAOL from members who have tried nymph fishing and feel it's too difficult and "dead drifting" nymphs is the only way I fish and I feel it is not that difficult. I will not say that it is easy, but, it is not hard either. Once you learn the technique, I feel most will find it, like me, to be a very enjoyable way to fish. What follows is how I nymph fish without an indicator but this is not meant to be the only way. It is just how I do it and maybe using some of my techniques will help those who are having problems.

Warren:

Nymph Fishing Wiehtout An Indicator "101", is a excellent article on nymphing without using indicators.

What many anglers fail to understand that the speed of the water in the stream, varies with the depth and currents. Many time the indicator on the surface will not give you the "heads-up" that there is a fish interested in you fly pattern...

Well Done! ~Parnelli

Parnelli,

A "well done" coming from you means alot to me! Thank you....

What I described is the way I fish 99% of the time and enjoy every second of it and I hope others give it a try.

Most of my 30+ years of nymphing has been without an indicator aswell. Depth does not dictate whether I will use an indicator. How far the cast is, and how many conflicting currents my fly line will be crossing to get to the holding area does. The biggest problem that i have noticed with beginners, and veteran nymph fishers alike is, most become fixated on their bobber. Yes, it's a bobber, and I use it aswell. Warren you mentioned watching your line when not using an indicator. I submit that you still watch your line even if you have an indicator on. The indicator is normally placed on the heavyest part of the leader. The butt section. I have yet to see where the line runs directly under the indicator. Normally it juts out in the direction of the nymph (s). that little section of line is what I watch when ever possible. Barring 40 to 50 foot casts in heavy water, thats practically 99% of the time. In my opinion, and thats all it is an opinion, if I am relying on an indicator to move, I feel I have probably been missing 75% of my strikes. By missing I mean not even realizing that the fish was on my fly at all. I have taught a few people to nymph fish over the years. The easyest for me to teach were a couple bass fishermen from Kansas. After an hour or so I told them think of it as hooking a bass on a plastic worm , but the bass will only take the worm as its dropping. A light turned on over their heads and they did pretty darn good the rest of the day. Once they started concentrating on line movement where it enters the water, they did well.
With or without an indicator, it will pay divedends to learn both methods, and know when to apply one method over the other.

Excellent article and very informative. I use indicators most of the time but after reading this I will definitely try this technique. Explains allot of lost fish!

Thx's
Mike

I also am a dedicated line watcher. As I fish on ponds most of the time I keep the line perpendicular to the rod. Lets me see the movment better.

Great Article.

Rick

One thing I did not mention is how the furled leader I use helps with nymph fishing without an indicator. I have made many furled leaders since purchasing Kathy Scott's furled leader DVD and have tweaked her formula so that I have my leader board set up to create a 5', 6' or 7' leaders just my moving the pegs. I find that I like a 6' leader the most. I have made my furled leaders from just about every material out there and have not found anything that works as well as one made from Berkley Vanish Transition Gold fluorocarbon. What I like about it is that it sinks faster than any other material I have tried. Most of the time, I cannot see the end of my fly line unless the water is very clear. Using the Vanish Transition Gold furled leader is a lot like using a mini sink tip fly line. In my opinion, this fast sinking furled leader also helps with getting my fly down deeper and quickly.

DUB - I liked your reference to the bass fishermen to pretend they are fishing a plastic worm on a tight line. I have told people to pretend they are tight line fishing for cat fish which seems to help them to understand the technique. I feel the most important part is to maintain as straight a line to the fly as they can and keep the rod tip down close to the water. If the rod is held up, it allows a belly in the fly line and you will not see or feel the "take".

Just to throw a little humor in, I was working with a young man on the river one day and as I stood beside him I saw his fly line heading upstream and he never set the hook. I told him that I know that I tie some "great" flies, but, they do not know how to swim and when his fly line is heading upstream, he really should set the hook!

There are several fly fishing techniques out there and they are all good and it would be wise to know how to use all of them well enough to be successful.

Tight lines......

Warren, great article, very well explained. I've always nymphed without an indicator myself and I feel I catch my fair share of fish. Many times, too many times, I get too focused and forget about the upstream mend at the beginning of my drift. Those are times, I'm sure, that I miss opportunities on hooking fish. The article is an excellent tutorial for beginners and a reminder for us verteran nymphers.
Bruce

Good article. I'm confused about making continual upstream mends instead of just retrieving on tight line. By making upstreams mends are we adding slack to the leader?

Are the techniques you are describing meant for slower water, unlike Joe Humphrey's upstream techniques?

Randy

Thanks for the kind words, Bruce. The mending is a very important part of this technique. Without mending, your fly is not drifting down close to the bottom and you will be fishing above the fish.

Here is another tip you can try the next time you are out that has caught me many fish I would have missed:

I was fishing a pretty fast current and when the fly was down and away from me, I just knew there had to be fish holding down close to the bottom at the end of drift and the fast current was lifting my fly line, leader and fly which was not good. As an experiment, I lowered my rod tip down into the water and could feel the bottom with the rod tip. I noticed that doing this caused the fast moving water to "crash" down on the fly line and this drove the rest of the fly line down which would take the leader and fly down with it. I could not see any of my fly line and was really just "tight line" fishing. I would just do some short strips, while holding the rod tip down under the water, and could actually feel the fly "ticking" on the bottom as I was stripping it back. This technique has caught me many fish. The most important thing to remember when doing this is do not set the hook with the rod when you feel the strike! Do a strip set and slowly raise the rod tip out of the water and fight the fish as you normanly would. If you attempt to set the hook while the rod is under water, you could possibly break your rod because the water on top of the rod is heavy. Try this some time and see how it works for you. After lowering the rod tip down into the water and holding it there, it is fun to watch the fly line go down and just disappear. It really works to get the fly down and is a lot like using a full sinking fly line. It only works on fast moving water after your fly has drifted down and straight away from you.

Just another technique I have discovered and use which really works.....

randyflycaster,

Yes, upstream mends will add slack to the leader and that is why I stated that on the upstream drift you may only "see" the strike and not feel it. The purpose of the upstream mends is to get your fly down as close to the bottom as you can. You are using floating fly line and if you do not throw a lot of mends into it on the upstream drift, the floating line will be constantly pulling the leader and fly up just like it does when the fly is past you and away. With each mend you can see the leader slowly sinking which will allow the fly to drift down in deeper water closer to the bottom.

I am not familiar with Joe Humphrey's upstream techniques, but, I will read about them because I enjoy this technique very much and always willing to learn more. I use this technique with slow moving as well as fast moving water. Always remember that floating fly line will always hold the leader and fly up and not allow them to sink. Constant mending on the upstream cast allows the leader and fly to sink deeper. With each mend I throw into the drift, I can actually see the leader go down a little deeper. On my drifts, using this technique, the first 3 feet or so of my fly line is always under water and, depending on how fast the water is flowing, there are times I cannot see the end of my fly line. I just constantly watch the line where it enters the water.

I hope this answers your question. If not, let me know or better yet, come fish with me......

randyflycaster,

Just had another thought on your question which may or may not explain the "how and why" I fish the way I do. I do not just cast the fly out there and hope to catch a fish. I "fish the fly" and fish it hard. I try to visualize where I feel the fish are holding and try to get my fly down to them because they may not come up for the fly. In moving water, the "better" fish will hold closer to the bottom where the current is not moving as fast as the current towards the top and they will not have to work as hard to hold their position. Fish seem to hold down close to the bottom at the beginning of a hole waiting for the food to come to them. This food, at the beginning of the hole, will be closer to the bottom because the riffle at the beginning of the hole will be driving the food down towards the bottom. Fish will also hold closer to the bottom at the end of the hole because their food will be coming up the incline to the riffles at the end of the hole. I hope this makes sense. I feel most fish and food will stay closer to the bottom due to the water current is slower than the current at the top. This is why I try to get my flies down as deep as possible where I feel they will present a more natural presentation. This "hugging the bottom" technique will cause you to lose more flies due to hang ups but the rewards are great. I guess that is why I tie my own flies instead of purchasing them. Kinda keeps the cost of flies down plus, when you tie your own, you will not be afraid of losing a few since you will have more and can replace the lost ones when you get home. So, mending a lot on the upstream cast puts the fly down deeper at the beginning of the cast and keeps it down there through the drift plus makes the fly stay closer to the bottom as it comes up the incline at the end of the hole. When I am fishing a very fast shallow seam, I will use a "high stick" technique and hold as much of the fly line out of the water as possible through the drift. When you give some thoughts to "high sticking", it is very similiar to the constant mending on the upstream cast because in both techniques you are trying to keep the floating fly line from pulling your leader and fly up.

Warren, great article. Having fished with you a few times you have translated well into words what you try to teach me when we fish. I must say I have not always followed through very well on what you have taught but I suppose that come with time.

For those of you wondering, yes, it does work. Warren has put me onto many fish with this technique and I am thankful.

Bob

Bob,

Good to see a post from you and hope all is well with you and your family.

Bob and I have had some great times fishing when he has made the trip here to fish. He is the type of person you can spend the whole day with and enjoy every minute of it.

I remember one trip when I was working with trying to explain my technique to him. His casting and fishing was great, but, the upstream mend was giving him some trouble. I remember that I climbed out of the river and stood up on the bank behind him and just watched and instructed. The part I really enjoyed was when he made a cast upstream and I told him to follow my instructions. I stood there and as soon as his fly touched the water I said, "mend". Each time the fly line started to drift past where it entered the water I said, "mend". The whole thing was like this: "mend, mend, mend, mend, now set the hook". When he did, he had a fish on and the smile on his face when he turned around to look at me, was the most rewarding part of the whole thing!

Really good to see a post from you, Bob. Have a Merry Christmas and a safe and Happy New Year. Come fish with me when you can.....

Thanks for this Warren. I usually use an indicator, although a couple weeks ago the trout I was targeting were in shallow, slow moving water, and when the indictor hit the water it would scare the fish. I tried fishing w/o the indicator and I finally caught a couple of fish, mainly watching for the "flash" of the fish taking the fly. The unweighted SH sank and floated into the fish very well, but I am sure I missed many strikes. I will give this a try next time, esp the rod tip under water technique.

Nice article Warren. I've often thought that fishing nymphs without an indicator has to be the hardest "kind" of fly fishing. Or at least it is to me. Great article, thanks for sharing.

Jason

Warren, thanks for your further explanation. The Joe Humphrey's method - similiar to the Brooks' Method, is used when fishing shallow, fast water. The fly is retrieved on tight line at the speed of the current, which means that it is actually moving (drifting) faster than the water near the bottom (where the fly should be). The reason why drift is not an issue is that trout, because of fast-moving water, don't have time to inspect the fly. They have to make a quick decision.

Your technique sounds great when fishing slower moving water.

Randy

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WarrenP

randyflycaster,

Just had another thought on your question which may or may not explain the "how and why" I fish the way I do. I do not just cast the fly out there and hope to catch a fish. I "fish the fly" and fish it hard. I try to visualize where I feel the fish are holding and try to get my fly down to them because they may not come up for the fly. In moving water, the "better" fish will hold closer to the bottom where the current is not moving as fast as the current towards the top and they will not have to work as hard to hold their position. Fish seem to hold down close to the bottom at the beginning of a hole waiting for the food to come to them. This food, at the beginning of the hole, will be closer to the bottom because the riffle at the beginning of the hole will be driving the food down towards the bottom. Fish will also hold closer to the bottom at the end of the hole because their food will be coming up the incline to the riffles at the end of the hole. I hope this makes sense. I feel most fish and food will stay closer to the bottom due to the water current is slower than the current at the top. This is why I try to get my flies down as deep as possible where I feel they will present a more natural presentation. This "hugging the bottom" technique will cause you to lose more flies due to hang ups but the rewards are great. I guess that is why I tie my own flies instead of purchasing them. Kinda keeps the cost of flies down plus, when you tie your own, you will not be afraid of losing a few since you will have more and can replace the lost ones when you get home. So, mending a lot on the upstream cast puts the fly down deeper at the beginning of the cast and keeps it down there through the drift plus makes the fly stay closer to the bottom as it comes up the incline at the end of the hole. When I am fishing a very fast shallow seam, I will use a "high stick" technique and hold as much of the fly line out of the water as possible through the drift. When you give some thoughts to "high sticking", it is very similiar to the constant mending on the upstream cast because in both techniques you are trying to keep the floating fly line from pulling your leader and fly up.

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Hi Warren. I find that when I use an upstream mend I must also immediately raise my rod a few inches to compensate for the little bit of slack that occurs on the mend. Is this true for you and do you understand what I'm trying to say?
Bruce

Bruce,

Thanks for bringing that up. Yes, on the upstream mend, I will hold my rod up to compensate for the slack I have thrown in the line. Once the fly has drifted down to infront of me, I will lower the rod and hold it close to the surface so that I can maintain as straight a connection between the fly and my rod.

Warren,

Thanks for your clear explanation of ‘no indicator’ fishing. I don’t use a bobber, but do use a ‘sighter’.
For me, it’s a 10 inch piece of 15# test amnesia tied into my leader just above the tippet. Its bright chartreuse color is enough for me to key on as the nymph drifts below. Any check in movement and it’s either the bottom or a fish. Others use hi-vis Stren, etc.

I, too, fish upstream with a weighted nymph or a little split shot on my tippet. Tippet length is 4 to 6 feet. I primarily short line nymph in faster (more shallow) currents. Instead of a dead drifting with a loose line, I choose to maintain a fairly tight line with at least part (if not all) of my sighter visible above the water. I find maintaining contact with the fly brings good results. I draw (lead) it downstream through the fish holding areas in pace with the current so the fly remains at depth. Any hesitation of the sighter and I lift. This is a good technique for fishing faster water where the broken surface allows me to get closer to the fish lies (behind rocks, in seams and riffles). Generally I have very little flyline, if any, on the water. I employ a 10 ft rod for extra reach.

Mine is just another wrinkle on the ‘no indicator’ method. I hope this is of value to readers.

Regards,
Bob O

Bob O,

Thanks for providing another "wrinkle" to "no indicator" fishing. I find it a very interesting method and worth consideration.

By the way, WELCOME to FAOL from Tennessee. I will look forward to your contributions to this site.

Thank you Warren.

This same technique works well when fishing a team of unweighted spiders upstream. Cast up and mend to allow the flies to sink a bit. Spiders (soft hackles) can be very effective fished upstream using nymph techniques, but instead of fishing near the bottom you're fishing to fish feeding closer to the surface. If you like upstream nymph fishing, then upstream unweighted spiders are worth considering when the fish are a bit higher up in the water column. If they are feeding on the surface, spiders on light gage hooks can be employed instead of a dry, and again, you would use the same basic technique. What's great is that Warren's technique can prepare you for upstream fishing no matter where in the water column the fish are feeding, so it's a tremdous skill set to learn.

- Jeff

Jeff,

I had never thought about using my technique with soft hackles and I love swinging soft hackles! Thanks for posting that and sharing. I will try the upstream drift with soft hackles and thank you for the kind words.....

Great article Warren, Thanks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JeffHamm

This same technique works well when fishing a team of unweighted spiders upstream. Cast up and mend to allow the flies to sink a bit. Spiders (soft hackles) can be very effective fished upstream using nymph techniques, but instead of fishing near the bottom you're fishing to fish feeding closer to the surface. If you like upstream nymph fishing, then upstream unweighted spiders are worth considering when the fish are a bit higher up in the water column. If they are feeding on the surface, spiders on light gage hooks can be employed instead of a dry, and again, you would use the same basic technique. What's great is that Warren's technique can prepare you for upstream fishing no matter where in the water column the fish are feeding, so it's a tremdous skill set to learn.

- Jeff

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That's how you fish spiders! I think it was T E Pritt who came out with the quote. "Fishing downstream is the devils work, my son, and don't let me catch you about it".

Cheers,A
.

great article, same way I learned to nymph from the likes of schreibert on the famed pocono streams. though now as I get older and its harder to watch the line end I have added a 1" piece of orange fly line just past the line end on the leader to help me see it better..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AlanB

That's how you fish spiders! I think it was T E Pritt who came out with the quote. "Fishing downstream is the devils work, my son, and don't let me catch you about it".

Cheers,A
.

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The devil and I aren't strangers. I will cast downstream any time I see/hear the fish chasing caddis emergers.

Warren,

Great article! You do it pretty much as I started out nymphing. My father-in-law always fished with a fly rod except he (gasp!) used worms, corn and once in a great while a little power bait but that came out shortly before he died. He taught me to get the bait down to the trout and we weighted with one or two split shots in those early days depending upon the depth and speed of the water. I didn't start fly fishing till about age 62 shortly after reading a fishing magazine article with a front page saying that trout fed under water 90% of the time. So, figured I was good to go with my conversion from bouncing bait along the bottom. Didn't have a mentor for proper techniques of fly fishing at the time so it was trial and error for me. Don't hardly ever use an indicator unless it's a dry fly; but, I like my method best. When tying flies that I'll use myself usually don't tie them weighted. I like to add some of that soft weight material about 12" to 18" above the fly and when I apply it I roll it between my fingers into an elongated submarine shape with a slight taper at each end instead of a ball shape like a split shot. I find that there's less bottom snagging this way and I really like the ability to add or subtract weight quickly and easily depending on the water depth and speed. It's also very easy to slide it gently up or down the tippet when the need arises unlike trying to relocate split shot. Gave up split shots long time ago.

Very good article and true. Have not used indicators since I was knee high. You are right on with your method. It works in deep or shallow as well as fast or slow water.

TwmsJr,

Thank you for the kind words. Let me be the first from Tennessee to welcome you to the best fly fishing site on the Internet. I will look forward to your posts.

WELCOME TO FAOL.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TwmsJr

Very good article and true. Have not used indicators since I was knee high. You are right on with your method. It works in deep or shallow as well as fast or slow water.

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I saw on your profile that you are retired. If you dont mind me asking, what indicators did you use when you were "knee high", and what rivers were you fishing? Welcome to FAOL, it's pretty darn informative.

My Bad!!!:evil: I missed the fact that it was TwmsJr's first post:neutral: Welcome aboard from another neighbor in Tennessee.:-D