Becoming a Guide

Just wanted to get the boards thoughts on becoming a guide.... have talked to several people about the pros and cons, looking for some more advice and finding the best way to go about it.......Thanks

Some random thoughts -

~If you really like to fish, becoming a guide can be tough, because all you really get to do is watch other people fish, and many times they will fish "wrong" no matter what you show or tell them

~The hours are long. During the "season" you will often work 7 days a week and some times more than 12 hours a day. You won't have much time to do anything else, so it helps to have someone around to help you take care of the basics, like laundry, house cleaning etc.

~If you have a family, during the guide season you won't have much time for them

~The business can be unstable. Fishing is a luxury, and if the economy goes south, certain parts of the business can go south with it.

~As you get older the days grow longer and the phyical nature of the job can take a toll, especially if you don't keep yourself in good physical condition.

So those are some of the "cons". The great part about guiding is you spend a ton of time on the river and learn things about fishing that you might not be motivated to spend time figuring out. And who else's office looks anything like the places fish are found in?

As far as getting started, probably the easiest way is to go work for an outfitter for a year or two to get a handle on the business. It helps a lot if you know somebody who can give you a reccomendation. Working in a fly shop and getting the owner to give you a recommnedation is a good short-cut, that's how I did it. Once you start working for outfitters, you can switch up "seasons" to stay busy most of the year - guide in chile in our winter, for example, and Alaska or Montana in the summer. Once you've got a few seasons under your belt, and enough capital to buy a truck, boat or whatever, then you can go on your own if you think you'll be able to market yourself successfully - not an easy task, and probably the biggest hurdle to success.

I guided for 8 years while working on my undergrad and masters. It was a lot of fun and I'll always look back on those days fondly. Now I've got a career and I realize that long-term guiding wasn't for me. But maybe you have what it takes and I wish you the best luck finding out.

-John

John, That is an excellent post! Straight forward comments and advise. Since K3's didn't mention how much experience on stream or salt , where he has fished nor what 'ins' he may have I don't think it could have been better said...Come to think of it even if he had mentioned the above ......

I've always dreamt of doing this myself, but the area I live in just is not popular enough to make a living at it. I even talked to a few guides, salt and fresh water, and surprisingly they all said in a nut shell "become a plumber or something else. And if you have a day job, stick with it."

My other problem was that i found out quickly you can't just up and decide to become a guide. You have to have some fairly extensive (and time consuming) medical training, and guide insurance is ridiculousy outrageous. I would never, cover the cost around here. But still I dream...maybe someday.



[This message has been edited by Copper Dropper (edited 18 October 2005).]

Also remember....

As a guide, you will get 50% of the price the outfitter charges. Some places may be more, but I have found that to be the guideline. In some cases, when you are just starting, it will be less than that. You may have to do a couple of trips for free just to prove you can do it.

Out of that 50%, you will have to pay for gas, food, leaders and general supplies at a minimum. In some cases, you will have to pay the cost of the flies also.

One BIG thing you need to remember is to pick your outfitter carefully!!! If the are not honest with folks, it will only make you look bad.

If you are really good, you may get a good tip that makes up for the lack of real money, but don't count on that. I remmeber one trip where I took 3 people that had never fished before. I taught them how to cast from scratch. By the end of the day, they had all caught several fish and told me what a great day they had. I got a $10.00 tip. They just did not know any better.

All in all, I love doing it. I also have a real job that pays the bills and I just guide for the fun of it (yes, really).

Good luck if you decide to go into the business.

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Ken

"The memory of a fisherman is more like fiction than journalism, that is, it doesn't ignore the facts, but it is not entirely bound by them, either."

John Gierach

Mantis-- Good point....
My background:
Fly fishing for 6 years....self taught from scratch....(grew up in midwest in middle of cornfields and walleye water)
My experience:
20 days in Alaska over the past 2 years, mostly fishing on the Kenai Peninsula(Russian River, Kenai River, Quartz and Ptarmigan Creeks)
15-20 days per year the last 5 years in Wyoming (Big Horns-Tongue, Platte River, Middle Fork of the Powder etc) Colorado (Various spots) and the Black Hills (Rapid, Castle Creeks)
And as many days per year as possible locally for largemouth, smallmouth, carp or anything else i can convince to take a fly.....

No particular "in's"....was considering the Sweetwater guide school in Livingston to gain some experience, especially with drift boating...wondering if that might be a worthwhile investment for those serious about the undertaking....

Thanks to all for replies...very thoughtful and informative!!!

From the info I've received, Sweetwater is an excllent guide school. I have considered the same thing !!!!!
With the years of experience, plus I spend more time tying flies & fly fishing anyway,
it's a perfect way to do what I love !!!!!
Besides, I'm a burned out music teacher !!!!!

I know absolutly nothing about being a guide but Al Campbell sure did . Click the following link to His Get rich quick be a Guide here on FAOL. [url=http://www.flyanglersonline.com/alcampbell/ac112601.html:c4882]http://www.flyanglersonline.com/alcampbell/ac112601.html[/url:c4882]

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I could be wrong , It seems unlikely , but I suppose it could happen.

K3's

Given your experience, I think the advice I gave is about right - you will probably need to work for an outfitter, and start from ground zero. Guys that grew up fishing rivers their whole lives and have a reputation for knowing the river are they types that dive right into their own business successfully. Somebody with your level of experience could benefit a lot with some time in retail getting to know the people in the business and customer service and/or working for an outfitter. With your experience in Alaska, working for a lodge would be a good possible start. If you are really serious and thinking about guiding somewhere, and willing to move to someplace to do it during the season (i.e. Alaska or Montana), I might be able to at least give you some names to talk to if you tell me where you want to work. E-mail me jrupp@watermc.com. Please think it over carefully, it's a huge decision.

Here's something else that hasn't been mentioned; to guide on state and federal lands you need to have a permit; permits are very hard to obtain and are normally held and controlled by local shops and outfitters. You can't just walk in to your local state forestry office and say, "I need a permit to guide on state lands." Get caught guiding on state/federal lands without a permit, lose your gear and vehicle.

In the West if you want to earn a living as a guide you need to have a drift boat or raft ($2,000 - $6,000) complete a coast guard approved boater safety course and have river experience. Rowing for fishing is a lot different than running white water, or pleasure boating, it takes major skill sets to do it properly.
http://www.myfishingpictures.com/img/053906.gif


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Dan S
The poster formerly known as Outrider

This question has been asked many times on this board. I suggest you do a search on this subject on this baord and you will get a lot of good information.
Having guided for many many years I do not see the need for a school. If you want to learn to guide and do it right then go to a good outfitter and get hired on. You learn and make a living at the same time. paying someone for a week or two will not do much for you. Go and learn like the rest of the older guides did. First Hand and in the face of fire. You will be better of for it.

On the permits it depends on the state you are in as to what you may need. In some states you pay your $50.00 get a license and go to it. Having insurance and anything else is up to you. In some others you will have to have proof of Insurance a First Aid card and a CPR card. Plus take a test and pay a bunch of money for a license. It just depends on were you want to guide. I see you are in South Dakota I would contact your fish and wildlife and ask them what is needed to become a guide. I am sure they will have the information you will need.

If you are going to be guiding fly fishermen then do not plan on fishing unless you know the people real well. It dosen't do you any good to fish with people and out fish them. They just plain don't like it.
If you are going to be guiding Bass fishermen than you can fish right along with them. I see it all the time.

Being a good guide is a hard job. It is not easy anyway you look at it. You will have people that you would love to throw overboard and you will have people that just plain get on your nerves. You have to live with it and do your job. You will also have people that will become life long friends that you will get Christmas Cards from for the rest of your life. It all comes with guiding.

I will say I am glad that I no longer have to guide for a living. I loved it and loved to do it but now days everyone and there brother wants to be a guide and there just isn't enough work for all of them to make a living doing it. At least in my area this is true.
The older guides do well but they have a client list built up and the same people come year after year. It is getting real hard for new guides to get this done. I use to pull somewere between 95 and 135 days a year. After talking with some local guides I see they are lucky to pull 60 days a year now. Just to many of them. And 60 days a year is no were near enough to make a living.

Maybe it is different in your area? I hope so or maybe you do not need the work to make a living? It makes a difference for sure. My son guides on weekends and is busy just about every weekend during the season. He guided with me and I gave him clients when I had to quit. He makes good extra money guiding but he also had a good start and all the equipment was here for him to use without cost. He also has a very good "OTHER" job that he still works all year long.

You do not always need a boat to be a guide I know several guides that do nothing but Spring Creeks and they never need a boat. I know in your area there isn't much water that you would be floating. maybe a few lakes and such?

If you really want to do it then go to it. Just treat your customers right and remember they are always right and to smile even if it hurts.
One thing that gets me now is the lunch the guides carry for the clients. In years past we use to give them a paper sack with a sandwitch an apple and some cookies in it. We also carried some sodas and water. Now they feed them a 3 course meal. The old guides that I have talked to about this feel as I do. people never needed a 3 course meal until we got all the new guides. We belive it is because they can't catch there clients fish so they have to have a great lunch. I would bet a bundle that if I took out clients and caught them fish they would not care if I handed them a sack lunch or a 3 course meal.
In other words do a good job and work as hard as you can to learn the streams and the areas you may be fishing so you can help your clients catch fish and you will do fine. In truth this is what it is all about. That and becoming a friend to them.

Also look for other things and ways to catch your clients fish. In other words don't do everything the other guides are doing mix it up and do things different than they do it will pay off. Like this. The year the BigHorn opened there were a lot of boats on that stream and they all had to put in at the afterbay. That is they thought they did. I got the idea of throwing our boats over the wire fence at the three mile walk through and we had great fishing without seeing another boat until afternoon. The other guides couldn't figure out how we were getting ahead of them all the time. I think they thought we had private land to put in on. Nope just being a little smarter than they were. Change things up do them differently and it will pay off.

One other thing to remember that you will have days that are not as good as others it will happen to all guides. If you get one of those days and the client offers you a tip smile and say "NO thank you. When you come back and we have a good day then I will take the tip" You will be suprised how many people will rebook with you because they are not being taken. I also suggest that you give the clients a few flies each day and do not charge them for them unless they get into you to deep. Say when they get to 6 or 8 flies. Then start charging them for them. Believe me it will come out in the tips you will get. Enough out of me. Ron

Ron, ... As always, ... excellent observations.

K3's ... mixin' and matching is an important part of the "job"... especially if you're in a competitive area.

That was one of the reasons behind: [url=http://flyanglersonline.com/features/canada/can309.html:3f18b]http://flyanglersonline.com/features/canada/can309.html[/url:3f18b]

As mentionned, ... if you really want to do this, Go for it!

Tight Lines.

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Christopher Chin, Jonquiere Quebec
[url=http://pages.videotron.com/fcch/:3f18b]Fishing the Ste-Marguerite[/url:3f18b]


I need a spelling checker http://www.flyanglersonline.com/bb/wink.gif


[This message has been edited by fcch (edited 19 October 2005).]

Going to a reputable guide school is a good idea. Give Donn Dale a call, he has one of the best. He will be able to you some good insight.
[url=http://www.flyfishbigsky.com:aa521]http://www.flyfishbigsky.com[/url:aa521]

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Joe

There is one other way you can walk off the river at season's end with 40 or 50 grand in your pocket...and that is to start out with ninety grand in your pocket.. I do wish you good luck and I am only kid' in above.
Awful lot of great, honest info in the above posts. I still would advise you to 'GO' for your dream. Don't let this time slide by and when you are in your seventies rue the time you didn't at least give it a try.

I don't know any successful guides that went to guide school. I look at those schools as a great way for some outfitters to make some shoulder season cash. I will teach you how to be a guide, or at least as much as I can in a week for $1000. How about a week when I'm not booked like mid march. You can row me around for a week while I fish and I will give you helpful pointers.

I agree with Ron that there are too many guides competing for a shrinking number of trips. To become a guide here I rowed a lot, bought a boat and owned and used it for a solid year and then I became a guide. It's been 4 years and it's still not that easy to make money at it, but it does get a little better every year. You have to deal with jackass outfitters that don't pay you, pshycopathic outfitters that pull guns on clients (this is a different story in itself) and all kinds of other bs. Then at the end of the year when you're pretty much broke again you have to get all your licensing and stuff for the next year and pay social security too.

Sometimes it is rewarding and you click with people and you have a great time. Sometimes you have some guy that says "ok" or "I know" everytime you tell him that he's doing the same thing wrong that you've been telling him to fix all day long. People go on vacation, brain go on vacation, and you have to deal with that. I like guiding but it takes the patience of a saint sometimes and the ability to extract hooks from your body while saying things like "oh, it happens all the time, don't worry about it".

Good luck.