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What are the advantages...disadvantages ..of true rotary vs full rotary vs non rotary.
I suppose tying in line might make it easier to lay things where you want them and rotary vs non seems obvious when doing certain maneuvers.but does true and full make much difference?
I hope it's ok [legal] for me to use those terms?
"True rotary" is a pretty meaningless term in itself, but is generally considered to be the same as "in-line rotary", where rotating the jaws through a full 360 degrees results in the mounted (straight shank) hook rotating around the hook shank as the center of rotation.
"Rotary" in vises simple means that the jaws can be rotated 360 degrees, but the hook is not required to remain horizontal throughout this rotation, nor the hook shank be the center of rotation.
Classic example of the latter would be the venerable Thompson A. Rotary, but not in-line rotary.
Traditionally, and for many tiers past and prsent this is the accepted and desired approach, materials applied to the hook are wrapped on a stationary hook, the hands busy wrapping the materials around the hook shank.
Wrapping materials can also be done quite efficiently on an in-line rotary design by rotating the jaws, while feeing the material to be wrapped from fingers held 'stationary'. If you try to do the same on a vise which is not of an in-line design, this would not work wery well.
Cheers,
Hans W
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[This message has been edited by Hans Weilenmann (edited 08 March 2005).]
I switched to a rotary vise a few years ago and can share what advantages I find.
I use the rotation feature a lot, but not often as a way to apply material. I find it very useful to look at the far side of the fly, or to tie legs on in the upside down position. The ability to view or attach materials at any angle has greatly improved the quality of my flies.
What I don't do often is use the rotation as a way to apply material. I find it easier to tie most material with the vise stationary and locked into the best rotation for the required task.
The exception is when I want very evenly spaced ribbing. Rotating the hook and feeding the rib material with the opposite hand gives me better spacing.
As a result I prefer a vise that has a lot of adjustability. I like to lock it into a standard position for 90% of the tying. I also want to easily rotate the fly upside down or sideways for viewing or adding material. Ball bearing action or good spinning doesn't seem to have an application for me.
For Xmas I received a new Griffin Mongose rotary vise. This vice allows adjustment of the axis of rotation. I can rotate about the horizontal or vertical. I find the feature especially useful for realistic patterns.
I agree with Hans. In-line rotation has limited advantages and/or uses. That said,a rotary visce should at least have the capability of rotating in-line. I'm all for versatility.
I'm with Loren to a point. If you've got the bucks, the inline rotation is an option one might want to have if the day ever comes when you want to wind materials on by spinning the vise. That day has never come for me. I use the rotary feature only to inspect the fly, or put some things on with the fly upside down, things you could do on a much less expensive vise. I need the inline rotary feature like I need a hole in the head, but who knows. Maybe I'll break my right arm some day and absolutely HAVE to rotate the vise with the left. Then I'll be glad I have it. Until then, the only thing spinning will be my head in complete amazement over all the hype about "rotary" tying. I've been trying to figure out what bugs me so much about the concept and I think I know what it is. I'd like to see someone come out with a vise that's incredibly solidly built, ergonomic, that can be rotated around so you can see the fly, but without having spent the money engineering it to spin on its axis like a top. Put the R+D money into some great jaws or something, really solid and indestructable. I guess the Regal might be what I'm talking about.
Eric
I think Hans is the only man I've met who is truly satisfied with only one vice (oh, er, I mean vise....*G*). I myself have several, and use them all for different types of tying. I have 2 "true rotary" vises, 2 Ragals (one pedestal w/midge jaws, one c-clamp w/regular jaws), a Danvise (truly one of the unsung bargains of the century), a Marc Petitjean vise, a Griffin 2A (makes a wonderful travel vise). I use them all at one time or another, and they all have good and bad points. If I had to choose one, I'm not sure which it would be.
I'm all for rotary vises. I have 2, a Griffin Odyssey and a Danvise (and a Griffin 2A for travel). As mentioned, not only can you position the hook to attach material with ease on any side (or apply head cement), and inspect the fly and apply dubbing or chenille or ribbing evenly, BUT you are also easier on your materials and temper. With a stationary vise and changing hands as you wrap, two bad things can happen. 1) You lose the grip on materials, 2) the flex and stress on the material as you change hands and tension causes the material (usually a feather) to break. With the in-line rotary, tension is even, the material is held basically stationary and stable. It is also faster, esp. on flies like WBs. The only thing to remember is to put on a half hitch and place the thread over the bobbin holder before rotating.