Carnage Hopper (variation) SBS

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...n/IMG_6340.jpg


hook - Dai Riki 280 #8
thread - UTC 140 tan
body/head - 2mm foam
underwing - landscape fabric
wing - elk hair
legs - rubber medium tan barred
eyes - foam cylinder
indicator - 2mm foam


Made a few changes to Adam Trina's original, mainly in the construction of the head (found it easier to work with the folded foam as opposed to the chunk of 6mm). The spiral-wrapped body is a pretty interesting design (love the segmentation effect); not really hard to do as long as you coat the needle with something to keep the foam from sticking. Vary the size of the needle (swiped a darning needle from my wife for this fly) and foam thickness based on the size of the bug. I used 2mm because I wanted a chunky bodied-hopper look; 1mm and .5mm razor foam may be better alternatives for smaller hoppers/stoneflies.


Part 1

Insert needle in vise

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...n/IMG_6280.jpg


poke a hole in a strip of foam (hook gap width)

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...n/IMG_6281.jpg


and slide on the needle (you'll want that tag end to hold onto)

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...n/IMG_6282.jpg


didn't have any wax so I used a liberal application of Mucilin to coat the needle

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...n/IMG_6285.jpg


brush Super Glue on about 3" of the foam

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...n/IMG_6286.jpg


grab the tag end and spiral the foam up the needle; try to make the turns uniform in spacing and tension (for a fat body like this, I don't pull too hard)

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...n/IMG_6288.jpg


continue wrapping a few more turns; hold for a sec until the glue sets

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...n/IMG_6290.jpg


then slide the body off the hook; trim tag end

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...n/IMG_6293.jpg


mash the hook barb, insert in vise and wrap thread to hook point

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...n/IMG_6294.jpg

Part 2

tie on a "binder strip" of foam (helps lock the body onto the hook in the following steps)

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...n/IMG_6295.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...n/IMG_6297.jpg


position body on hook, coat binder strip with Super Glue

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...n/IMG_6298.jpg


brush a bit more glue on body strip and wrap forward 3 turns

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...n/IMG_6300.jpg


tie off foam and trim

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...n/IMG_6303.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...n/IMG_6304.jpg


prepare underwing (hook gap width)

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...n/IMG_6307.jpg


measure for length (extend a bit past the butt) apply a bit of glue and tie in

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...n/IMG_6308.jpg


clean, stack and measure a clump of elk hair and tie in

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...n/IMG_6311.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...n/IMG_6312.jpg

Part 3

invert fly, take another strip of foam (a bit wider than hook gap) and tie in at base of wing position

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...n/IMG_6315.jpg


flip fly back over, poke a hole in it for hook eye

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...n/IMG_6317.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...n/IMG_6318.jpg


place a piece of foam cylinder at front of head

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...n/IMG_6322.jpg


fold foam over top and tie down at base of wing

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...n/IMG_6324.jpg


tie in legs

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...n/IMG_6325.jpg


trim excess foam and tie in indicator

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...n/IMG_6329.jpg


whip finish, SHHAN, trim legs, indicator and foam underneath and you're done

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...n/IMG_6331.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...n/IMG_6336.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...n/IMG_6337.jpg


Regards,
Scott

Great looking hopper Scott. Looks to me like a good alternative for the Super Glue, CA, would be something like fabric or headliner adhesive. Bonds super well, is water resistant and stays flexible, unlike most CA's that get hard when cured.

Scott thanks for posting the tutorial.

Scott - thats a cool hopper SBS... really like the body. Thanks for putting it up...

Whoa!!! Killer hopper. I gotta tie up a few of these.

Pookey isn't the only one pretty in pink


http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/...psc480023f.jpg


On second thought, the orange indicator seems a bit unnecessary.


Regards,
Scott

Tried as I might I could not get the wrapped foam to stay. Cool pattern though.

2mm foam is a bit more of a challenge for me to work with; if you have some 1mm stuff, you may find it easier. It took me a lot of trial-and-error to get the hang of it, and I still only hit at about 60% success rate (although some of the rejects are still useable) but they're fun to play around with.

Regards,
Scott

Can you honestly say this fly is more productive than the other hopper you tied and is much easier to tie?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Uncle Jesse

Can you honestly say this fly is more productive than the other hopper you tied

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This one's a new pattern for me and I haven't had a chance to use it much yet, so I can't say; I certainly don't expect it to be the magic bullet but it's always nice to have something a little different to show the fish

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Uncle Jesse

is much easier to tie?

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No, it's not easier to tie than a lot of the other hoppers I fish. It has been fun, though, to figure out the process, and I've got it to the point where I can roll out a good number of bodies pretty quickly; once that's done, the construction of the fly is fairly straightforward, not much different than the Rogue style.

Regards,
Scott

Bad typing and proofreading on my part, I meant to express the though the other hopper is easier to tie. I was looking for real justification to try this pattern.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Uncle Jesse

I was looking for real justification to try this pattern.

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I'm tying and trying it because I thought the design/tying technique was interesting and figured it'd be fun seeing how it works. I'm certainly not trying to convince folks they need this fly in their boxes.

Regards,
Scott

Have you thought of getting a tube of contact cement instead of superglue.

I'm pretty happy with the Super Glue; contact cement would definitely provide adhesion, but you'd have to coat both sides of the foam strip, wait for it to dry and then have glue residue on the part of the foam that didn't make "contact".

Regards,
Scott

Tested the hopper out for a few days in Yellowstone NP and surrounding water - worked well but no better than any other patterns I tried, and in the smaller sizes (#12 and down) using the 1mm foam they proved to be somewhat fragile (the larger 2mm foam version was much more durable), with the extended body tearing off on a number of occasions. Not going to give up on it yet, but if I can't find a way to strengthen it up without adding time to the tying process, I may just stick to the bigger ones for this pattern and the Rogue version for smaller hoppers, which worked just fine. The Carnage drakes, on the other hand, seemed to hold up very well, and generated a lot of interest.

Regards,
Scott

Scott, I really enjoyed the SBS and it was very well done. I love exploring new techniques in tying and your hopper is something I will try. I do have a couple ideas that came to mind that are not offered as a "better" way of tying this pattern. I am bringing them up only as "food" for thought. The first thing I thought of while viewing the finished hopper was maybe coating the exposed edge of the foam with a darker color before wrapping it on the needle and this would give the body segmentation which, I know is not needed, but for eye appeal only to the tyer. I think the lighting in your picture gave me this idea and I thought you may have done this, but, looking back over the SBS, I did not see that as a step. Another idea I had that probably will not work, but, it was the first thing that came to my mind when I read that after use, the extended body would be ripped off. Remember this is just the first thing that came to mind because I love a challenge and since I also love the looks of this pattern that you came up with, I wanted to see if I could come up with something that would increase the durability. I am thinking that instead of creating the body by wrapping on a needle, that one could create the body by wrapping/glueing it on a taut piece of heavy mono and this could serve as a foundation for adding strength to the extension.

Please understand that I feel your pattern is great and I am just "thinking out of the box" because I live "out of the box"!! : ) Keep the SBS's coming because I enjoy them!!!

Warren,

I bet the marker along the edge would create a neat visual (whether the fish care or not is unknown, but like you said, it'd look cool, so why not?). I, too, thought about using a mono underbody instead of the needle and after seeing how fragile the little ones were, this is something I'm going to try; for the smaller flies, I don't thing I'd need anything real heavy, maybe something like Mason 8-10lb. It would also obviate the need to slide the body off the needle, the point in the tying process where I had a number of failures; although I started hitting over .500 success rate using the needle, there were still a number of no-go's.
Thanks for the great suggestions, any and all input is welcome. I like the outside-the-box neighborhood you live in.

Regards,
Scott

Have you thought of laying a strip of foam along the needle and wrapping the foam on top of that strip to strengthen the body? Just a thought.

BTW, boxes make great kindling.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Uncle Jesse

Have you thought of laying a strip of foam along the needle and wrapping the foam on top of that strip to strengthen the body? Just a thought.

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Worth a shot. I'll hit the vise when we return from a trip back to VA in 10 days

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Uncle Jesse

BTW, boxes make great kindling.

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:D


Regards,
Scott

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ScottP

in the smaller sizes (#12 and down) using the 1mm foam they proved to be somewhat fragile (the larger 2mm foam version was much more durable), with the extended body tearing off on a number of occasions. Not going to give up on it yet, but if I can't find a way to strengthen it up without adding time to the tying process, I may just stick to the bigger ones for this pattern

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Part 1


Had an epifanny in Home Depot


http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7a8f0252.jpg




now I'm tying tube fly hoppers


http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/...pse751bbd0.jpg


http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/...pscb33504c.jpg




just hold the foam strip against the tube, apply a lot of Super Glue to the foam (no need to wax the needle)


http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/...ps601da02e.jpg




wrap foam around tube; since it's not gonna stick to the needle I could really pull the foam tight to get good adhesion (to the tubing, too), and adjust tension to create body taper


http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/...psbf47e9cb.jpg


http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1afa9582.jpg




slid off the needle slick as whale snot; now I got Carnage on a stick


http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2314a970.jpg




trim the butt and front tube (not the front foam, yet) and poke a hole in the bottom to slide the hook into


http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/...ps06604dac.jpg




insert hook in vise, start the thread and build up a tying base; forgot to add foam binder strip for more bulk (next time)


http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/...psd42a337e.jpg




coat with Super Glue


http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/...ps19393982.jpg

Part 2

slide the body forward, wrap once around with the foam and tie it down




http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1e14f3d6.jpg








clean, stack, measure a clump of elk hair and tie it in




http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5a55f984.jpg




http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/...ps61a1dba2.jpg








take a wider strip of foam and tie in underneath at wing tie-in position




http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2b5ee572.jpg








poke a hole in foam where hook eye meets, pull foam up, move thread to hook eye and secure foam with a couple firm wraps




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move thread back to wing tie-in position and secure foam on top




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add legs and indicator




http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2c0d04a7.jpg




http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/...ps53a9a1ce.jpg








trim head foam top and bottom, whip finish, SHHAN and you're done




http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2594e9b3.jpg




http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/...ps21f0c8c9.jpg






Sorry for the ugly orange hopper but I was playing around with some ideas for an October Caddis when inspiration hit. They make heat shrink tubing in 1/16" which would be a little smaller, but I think for hoppers #12-14, I'll use something like Larva Lace or Hareline tubing.




Regards,
Scott

I like these, but even tho my eyesight is fading, I don't think I'd need an indicator on top of that fly just yet . . . 8^)

Am I the only one that has trouble getting solid hook-ups with an extended body? And I would think that the tube underbody would make it worse.