Turned down hook eyes

This topic has probably been beaten to death but I'll ask anyway. Why do hooks have turned down eyes? Were they developed to accommodate snells or Turle knots? I've found that it is easier to tie on ring eye hooks in many cases.

Only really care of up,down or straight eye when tying small flies myself say 22 on down,with hooks that small even the eye can take-up hook gap space and you want as much hooking ability as possable on these tiny flies...what gets me is why it's so hard to find up eye hooks in these smaller sizes.


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"I've often wondered why it is that so many anglers spend so much money on,and pay so much attention to.the details on the wrong end of the fly line.If they took as much care in selecting or tying their flies as they did in the selection of the reel and rod,They might be able to gain the real extra edge that makes it possible to fool a fish that has,in fact,seen it all before" A.K.Best

"Wish ya great fishing"

Bill

Yes Ray, both the up and down eyed hooks were designed to acomodate the turtle knot, to allow a straight connection to your leader.

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Born to fish, forced to work.

Bill,

Quote:

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Only really care of up,down or straight eye when tying small flies myself say 22 on down,with hooks that small even the eye can take-up hook gap space and you want as much hooking ability as possable on these tiny flies

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Why would you think a down eye will reduce the effective gap on the tied fly?

Cheers,
Hans W


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=== You have a friend in Low Places ===
http://www.danica.com/flytier

Hans,
I had always thought the same thing as Bill about down eyed hooks decreasing the "effective hook gap" in the smaller sizes. Now that you have questioned that, I'm not sure why. I'm curious about your thoughts about this.

It might be really interesting to draw each hook, draw in the leader attachment, and then, 'pretend' to hook a fish with each and note the angle of the hook as it tries to penetrate the jaw of the fish. You'll need to form a line from the leader to the end of the business end of the hook which you can move to see what happens.

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LadyFisher, Publisher of
FAOL

Hans,
For me,in my own experience,I've caught and "landed" more fish with up turned eyes on the really small spectrum of the dry fly hooks...any gain in hooking ability is a major plus especially down around say size 26... the distance of the overall lenth of the hook in these hooks alone,make for alot less area of travel time for the point to grab something to hold onto, ever lay a 26 beside a 12?..and think of just how little there is left after tying on material's,even the knot you use can play a role in missed strikes and or lost fish after the fact.I like how an upturned eye offsets all that well out of the way of the barb,and I feel the line of pull helps aginst the pressure of the fishes closed mouth,To give a firmer hold and deeper grasp of that tiny point,and wheather this is viewd as a "Heresy" or not, Unless I am fishing "Catch & Release,Flyfishing barbless hooks ONLY" water.
I WILL NOT Debarb a hook of size 24 or smaller...

these are just MY thoughts and maybe food for thought...Not trying at all or, wanting a lecture on "what I should think" or where I'm "so way off"... Rouge scholar I'm not!
nor have I or do I design hooks...

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"I've often wondered why it is that so many anglers spend so much money on,and pay so much attention to.the details on the wrong end of the fly line.If they took as much care in selecting or tying their flies as they did in the selection of the reel and rod,They might be able to gain the real extra edge that makes it possible to fool a fish that has,in fact,seen it all before" A.K.Best

"Wish ya great fishing"

Bill

A down eye certainly looks like it closes down the hook gap.

I remember reading that the turned down eye is supposed to help hooking and holding fish. The theory is that the line attachment is more in line with the hook point when both are below the shaft.

Mustad has some good hook information, including some history on their website:
[url=http://www.mustad.no/abouthooks/index.php:9870e]http://www.mustad.no/abouthooks/index.php[/url:9870e]

[This message has been edited by Bruce Norikane (edited 07 June 2005).]

I appreciate the interest and comments but my basic theme is that ring eye hooks are easier to tie and do look better. The "look better" opinion applies mostly to flies like spun head Muddlers and Bead head wets. Plus, anything but a straight eye seems,to me,to be quite a bother in smaller sizes.

Bill, Bruce,

On a bare hook a down eye reduces the hook gape, when compared to the same size/model hook with a straight or ring eye, or an up eye.

However... on a finished pattern I would be hard pushed to come up with more than a small handfull of patterns where the _thorax_ bulk, not the hook eye, limiting factor. As such the argument in favor of up eye or ring eye based on effective hook gape would appear to me a moot one at best.

Cheers,
Hans W
leaving in the early morning for a week fishing in Slovenia. I may even fish some flies tied on very small hooks. Down eye ones, of course ;-)

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=== You have a friend in Low Places ===
http://www.danica.com/flytier