New Fluoro Nymph Leader Configuration ...

I was in need of a new nymph leader for my 7 wt rod. I generally only use it to fish large, heavily weighted stonefly nymphs like JARS, mostly one at a time, but on occasion two at a time, and always under a large thingamabobber.

My old leader was furled out of 2# Berkeley Vanish in a 10-8-6 configuration with proportions of 40% butt section, 30% mid section, and 30 % tip section. A tip ring was incorporated, and 2X tippet was the standard for fishing the big nymphs under an indicator.

Believing that a slimmer profile would work better, i.e. not have so much resistance to letting the fly sink, I opted for an 8-6 configuration of the 2# BV with proportions of 40% butt and 60% mid / tip, with a tip ring incorporated. The finished length of the leader is about 5'8".

I had the chance to fish the new leader for several hours yesterday and was quite satisfied with it. I fished both a single JARS, and a tandem of them with the second fly trailing the first one by about 2', under the thingamabobber. Total distance from the thingamabobber, which was placed quite close to the butt of the leader, to the trailing nymph was the best part of 12'.

It's impossible to say that there was a marked improvement of the new leader over the old one. But it is quicker to set up, uses less material, and furls in about the same amount of time. And with satisfactory performance for it's intended use, that is progress, to my way of thinking.

John

P.S. No tight loops with the 2 fly rig - big open loops and watch your right ear. :roll:

John;
You are using an indicator/bobber?:confused:

Jack the Thingamabobber is extremely effective in fishing a dead drift, and aiding in depth control. An extremely effective method. John have you ever thought of using a micro swivel on that leader?

Brandon

Brandon;
I know what a thingamabober is, Junk, sorry John. I just wonder why you would use one with a fluorocarbon leader! I want my wet fly down on the bottom ticking the rocks. If I was using a "Bobber" I would use a mono or thread leader!
Have another glass of Cool Aid.

I can't answer for John here, but I would say because it's a bit stiffer making it easier to turn over the heavier flies.

Brandon

I doubt that very much. If you have ever used a fluorocarbon leader with an indicator or hopper/dropper you'd understand.

My experience has flrou sinking much faster than mono or thread.

John like you I thought that everyone knew fluoro sank faster due to it's density. That is the reason I didn't state that as a reason for using fluoro. The beauty of furled leaders is you can customize them to do what you want by using different materials, or mixing materials, and changing the taper as well. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience with this leader with us.

Brandon

John;
A fluorocarbon leader will try to sink an indicator or dry fly attached to the tippet. If it doesn't the leader will sink making it difficult to make another cast without stripping in line to get the leader back to the surface.

Jack,

Instead of reading about it, you should try it. We use flouro all the time fishing dries on the bighorn, from #16 to #28. No problem with sinking the dries. Much more abrasion resistant. It certainly won't sink a thingamabobber....

Boomer, I use fluoro tippet for everything but not furled fluorocarbon leaders!
By the way I have fished the Bighorn as well as the Clarks Fork and the Bitterroot on my way to fish the really great rivers in Idaho!:D
P.S. I've also had the honor to spend an afternoon fishing the East Branch of the Bitterroot with John and consider him a close friend.

Excellent Jack. I took you post as describing the differential sink rate (as a result of density) related to mono, flouro or thread. The most apparent place I think that would be obvious is small dries, and that's what I tried to highlight in my post. In my experience, density differences between common leader and tippet materials don't affect catch rates. What seems to affect catch rates, to a much larger extent, is the ability to get a drag free float. In both dry fly fishing and nymphing, it seems that the people that can cast and mend to achieve a drag free drift or float will have much higher catch rates, using the same flies and fishing the same water, as those that can't. I carry both mono and flouro, and haven't been able to discern a difference in hooking rates. To me, the flouro does seem to hold up better to abrasion relater to stream abrasion and especially fish teeth after multiple fish on the same tippet.

Regards,

Jim

John,
Could you expound on "nymphs really don't much dead drift"? Perhaps relate it to behavioral drift.

I seldom use a strike indicator when fishing moving water, I just don't like them. I do use them, and hopper/droppers on still waters. But I fish tail waters where there are few hatches, size 28 midges if you are so inclined? So it's mostly down deep, ticking the rocks where I want my fly.
One problem with this discussion is that few of us are fishing the same type of conditions so we are sort of comparing apples to oranges!
I have fished John's home waters and must say he is truly blessed. But I'd sure like to get him over here to fish the Duck and Elk Rivers just for the diversity.

Jack,
Which Elk and Duck rivers? Where?

Jim, AKA (Boomer51) Forgive me for not properly welcoming you to the board. You know that the new guy must bring the donuts and coffee? We used to make them chop wood for the fire too!!:D Hope to hear from you a lot.

Byron The Elk River from Tim's Ford Dam in Franklin County Tennessee and the Duck River out of Normandy Lake in Bedford County Tennessee. Up in Manchester, TN is Old Stone Fort camp grounds. It is the site of a 2000 year old indian village set between the Little Duck River and the Duck River. Both rivers below the dams are stocked. The Elk gets Browns and Rainbows while the Duck gets only Rainbows. I like the Duck as you never know what you may hook up! I've caught Blue Gills, Rainbows and Walleye out of the same hole with the same fly!

John,
Even a perfect dead drift of a dry fly does not mean that the fly will not float at different speeds and different directions depending upon the surface current(s). In fact, that IS what a dead drift is supposed to do. Float as the natural does.

The same applies to subsurface forms of insects. They get buffeted about based on currents and obstructions. Just as one intends in a dead drift - to behave as the natural does.

Behavioral Drift is the accepted phenomenon which keeps our streams somewhat evenly populated by insects. The adults tend to fly upstream to lay their eggs. If it were not for the fact that nymphs and pupae tend to drift downstream, all the lower sections of a river would no longer have hatching insects. So, it is this natural behavioral drift of the nymphs and pupae which distribute the insect downstream.

Anyway, those are my beliefs.