Which Blank for a light Trout Spey Rod?

I would like to build a spey rod. But know absolutely nothing about them. I have the following blanks:

9' 10wt 3pc Beulah

9' 5wt 3pc Forecast or Pac Bay

10'-6" 5wt 2 pc...blank weight = 2.4oz

10' 3wt 2 pc "Full Flex"

13' Rainshadow for
lines 4-8
Action = moderate
Power = light
Butt = .5"
Tip = 4.5

Which would you recommend for a light trout spey or switch rod?

Spey and switch are two different animals. If you are looking for a Spey rod, 9' is too short.
check out the offerings from Batson. They have a 10'6" switch blank in 5/6. I just ordered their 10'6" in a 7/8 for a steelhead switch rod. I think they also have several lighter weight spey blanks. Their quality,service, price are unmatched. But that's my opinion.

Good morning,
Only one reply to this thread.

Dear me, whats wrong, some people must have used a small Spey rod, some people must have some idea that they could share with some people, surely ?

Kind regards,
UB
I use a Trout Spey rod :D

Thanks Uncle Barry. I was thinking the exact same things. Where the heck is everyone when it comes to talking spey? So far I got's no help at all.

I have built on the Batson switch rod blank. I would rate it as a moderate to moderate fast blank. The quality of the blank is good and it makes for a nice finished rod. If you search the rod building phorum you will find some information on there from Kerry who is a part of Batson. It seems that he is a regular contributor.

I don't think you want to build one (spey) under 12'. Big difference between a spey and a switch rod.
I have a friend that is into two handed casting and fishing. He does have some nice Echo Dec Hogan two handed rods in 4w, 5w and a 6w for light trout. The 4w is an 11'9" rod, the 5w is around 12' if I remember right and the 6w is 12'6". I used them last week. I'm not sure if you can get blanks for them yet. I'm not certain who makes two hander blanks in trout sizes either. These are NOT the same as switch rods they are "spey" type (two handers).
I just looked online and they go for $349 retail. That might be cheaper than buying grips, a nice seat, guides etc. If you enjoy fishing for trout with the two hander, maybe build you one later.
This friend used his 5w all last year on the Green and Provo rivers swinging softhackles and caddis. He has a hard time going back to single handed rods now. The lines he used were AirFlo Delta tapers in 4,5 and 6w spey lines.
Good luck in your endevor.

Thanks for the info. When one has absolutely no info on a subject....anything at all is helpful. I have a 13'6 blank that was not in any category when I purchased it. Meaning it was not listed as a spey rod blank, switch.....nada. Just that it was for 4-8 wt lines. Perhaps I can check the action of this blank. I am not sure what action I want though. I am told full flex is best but also read where others prefer fast.

I have looked for some spey rod building kits but not been too happy with what I have found so far. H&H lists one but when you go there it just tells you a price. No pics of the gear, no comments about guides, grip or anything. Kind of if you want one of these you gotta buy it sight unseen. Not too happy with that idea.

RS1
Thank you for your post. Lot of good info there. Length's, wt's, even line brands,....
I was just wondering if anyone even sold a spey blank in any wt less than 6wt. Your post very interesting. Thanks again.

Good evening.
To try and help a mate and maybe some other fellows,

did you note,
RS1, "He has a hard time going back to single handed rods now."

I wonder why ;)
Why because its the best fun with a fly rod you ever had, in fact you would never think possible. The fun and where and how you could fish a fly rod was EVEN possible !

To help some,
I will write in a general term/s, as with this subject you could write a never ending book.

And I will write this over numbers of posts to save my old fingers.
Ask questions all you wish, as there are no silly questions in this learning curve.

Where to start ?
Maybe the type of rod blank.

There are numbers of different rod blanks, all depending on their action.
with regards to a Trout Spey, which is generally a 6w or less rod.

Scandi type, these are a fast tip type of rod, not ideally suited for a Trout.
Skagit ....... tip type rod, not suitable
There are a number of different tip types also, like an Overhead casting however thats another topic.

Switch rod type, this is an attempt to be all things to all fly fishers, fantastic idea, be it for salt or sweet water.
Usually a fast actioned blank that will be finished with a longer for grip.
this rod will allow nice Spey type casts and Spey type casts, a very useful rod for the average fly fisher (why more aren't sold, I will never understand ! )

Then traditional Spey type of blank.
This rod's action will bend all the way into the grip, normally most people would not like this action, as they have been feed for years by the so called 'experts', its go to be faster and faster rod action or nothing.... rubbish.

Which in due course is taking the caster away from effective river and or lake fishing and casting !

This kind of action is called 'slow'.

Why a 'slow' actioned rod is required,
this is because the rod's loading will come from only a few feet behind the caster, this is normally in the form of a D Loop, where as the fast actioned rod will come from a loading in the air... the loading is from the line in the air. And then progressively loaded till the final false cast is made.

Therefore the cast time for a Spey type rod, verses a single handed rod, over head casting is about 1/4 at most, result, your fly spends more time in the water per trip than a single handed rod's cast fly does.

Can a fast tip/actioned rod cast Spey style.
Yes.
However as the rod is not primaryly designed for this appication, then it is not ideal for Spey casts.

Best way to describe the above could be,
Fast action rod, Overhead casts 100% SC's 50 at most (don't forget the Scandi and Skagit types with are different again )..... this is in the area of a Switch rod.

Traditional Spey, OH casts 25% (WITH A Short belly line...lines at another post, remember my fingers) and SC's 100%..beautifully !

Rod lengths and why.
next post,

Trust I haven't confused, yet.

Kind regards,
UB

Traditional actioned Trout Spey rod in the 5/6w 12 foot class.

BUT fishing the salt (its a hell of a lot of fun).
Cast, an Underhand from the wrong shoulder, thats why it looks a bit odd.

The rod's bend, all the way into the cork grip.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f2...dwrongside.jpg


Kind regards,
UB

Uncle Barry,
GREAT INFORMATION

Thank you for taking the time. I have been looking for spey information and kits on the web without much success.

I am going to wear out your typing fingers.

I just noticed in my list of rods a mistake I made. I listed a 10' 4wt and it is not. It is a
10' 3wt full flex blank.

Is there any reason I cannot build this as a spey rod? Will it load and cast with a three wt line? Or could it still be a spey rod and maybe use a 5 -6wt line? THEN.... will the rod handle the load casting spey style with a 3wt ...line?......a 6wt line?

All the blanks and kits I have found for spey do not go below 6wt. 6wt will handle all I fish for....but I think I would like to try a much lighter rod. 6wt is not absolutely necessary for the fish I catch although that is what everyone uses here. I think they are over rodded.

Anywhooooo....nuther question. If I build a 6wt spey rod from a kit. One on e=bay now for $129 and one at Hook & Hackle on sale for $130......so I can build a 6wt.

But will my normal 30 yard 6wt line work or do I need to buy a special 6wt "SPEY" fly line? Aren't they longer....and built differently for spey casting?

THEN....if I need a longer line...does that mean I need a larger reel to hold it? So a normal 6wt reel....especially a 6wt large arbor would not have the capacity to hold and fish a spey line?

Perhaps as long as spey fly lines are...and I don't really know....perhaps I could just use a 6wt large arbor reel with no backing?

Thanks in advance if you find time to answer.

And thank you again for the posted information. Printed and going in my 3 ring binder marked Spey.

Seriously Sincerely,

Jim

Uncle Barry, If I understand this correctly, the rod shown is a slow action, because it bends along the entire length.:confused::mrgreen:

Good evening.
We have some confusion already.
Thats normal and ok.

Now lets answer the best I can and please remember, as this is not a book, my answers will be in a general view of the subject of Trout Spey type rods.

Q1 the rod shown is a slow action, because it bends along the entire length.

Correct.
The reason for this is the caster will only be forming a D Loop behind him or her self when loading the rod (with the aid of the anchor effect... more about this in Casting )and NOT and not by an airel load (the line in the sky) as in overhead casting like so called single handed rod casting, that most people perform, which will require a fast rod to max, the potential of the load to the cast distance.

Today, there are few slow actioned rods available on the market, if any, why, there are many reasons one of which few people can Spey cast with their single handed fly rods, INCLUDING the so called experts that work for and advise some Companys.

Hence no demand for a product which equals no possible sales which equals no investment in this class of rod, in single handed fly rods.

The end result consumers cannot fish anywhere, like a spin fisher can, all because of the need of a back cast area, which most Spey casts do not need therefore where a spin fisher can fish, so can a Spey casting fisher with either a single or Double handed rod.

And now to confuse most people.
You can Spey cast with a fast rod !
However the ideal, the best performing rod for the task is a fly rod designed for the cast, the task of Spey casting, which is a slow actioned rod that bends all the way into the grip.

Q2, It is a 10' 3wt full flex blank.
Beautiful !
Yes you can build a Switch rod or a Sweet Trout Spey from that blank.

Switch rods have a shorter top grip, and faster action than a Spey rod, in the ideal World.

Anything under about 11 feet you start to lose the effect of the loading from the D loop that is formed in a Spey cast.
You can over come this with a little more casting skill AND SPEY Casting is far easier that you think !

It will seem clearer or easier if people start to think of this D loop term as the power loop, that drives the energy in and for the cast. The people who I have instructed appear to accept the facts and understand some what quicker, when this description is used.

Back to the 3w 10footer case,
Why not make a little Trout Spey with a 3w 10footer, because there are no concrete rules in the fun department.
AND a 3w TS will be fun :)
a great little rod that you will be able to single hand cast with also.

BUT...you guessed it, could this be classed as a Switch rod also.
The answer is yes and no.
Yes, because you can cast with both single or both hands.
No, because its a slow actioned rod.

A kit to build from,
just buy 1 guide for every rod length foot, (you can use less if you chose) buy a reel seat, anything you like, as per a normal single handed rod, as long as both ends are open ;) With a big number one stripper guide, say about 3/4inch ID.
grips, cork, bottom, something about 4 1/2inches to 5 inch.
Top, the ideal length will be, from the bottom grip, to the bottom of, to what ever your shoulder width is plus 2 inches.

However with a little 10 footer 3w, this could then be say 14inches, as the rod will not need to be driven hard at all.

Q3, do I need to buy a special 6wt "SPEY" fly line?
NO, unless you have money to burn !
And in the case of a suitable line for this new 3w TS, I don't think there is even a 3w Spey line made.

So we will adapt and build a line..thats latter... more fun and exploring, because we can now introduce a number of different tips to the line, say, a floater, slow sink, intermediate and a fast sinking AND carry all these tips in your shirt pocket.

Q4, S Lines, Aren't they longer....
Yes, because generally a Spey cast is further than the single handed casts, eg, the World Record Spey cast is something like 220 feet !

Q5, and built differently for spey casting?
Yes, in most cases the front taper is longer and the belly is longer,
there are 3 belly lengths built, 50/55feet, 65'ish, 75'ish feet in length.

With your about to be built wee little TS, I would suggest to start with a belly in the range of about 3 to 4 times your rod's belly length, plus then a forward taper, more on the subject latter.
Or we can adapt a single handed fly line to use your casting and load as required.

Q6, does that mean I need a larger reel to hold it?
Yes, it does, normally it is a case of increasing the reel size by two for a single handed rod size, to allow for the longer forward taper and belly lengths.
In your case a 6 or 7w reel will be ideal.

To clear away some fog,
Some will have noticed, that some Doubles, in all types are rated as, 5/6 or 7/8w or what ever, in two line sizes.
these indicate, to some ( its debatable to some) the lower size/number is the tip size/load and the higher/larger weight number the butt load.

There you can cast a full butt load or a lighter tip load or say for example, a tip load and then add a heavy sink tip and cast a full butt load. (bet someone is confused by now )

And now some ideas on line size loads for different rods,
example a 6w
Single Handed rod, line weight should be about 160 grains.

Double Handed loads,
Shooting Heads, 250 grains,
Short Spey belly lines, about 50 feet length, 420 grains
Mid S bellys, 450/460grains
Long S bellys 600 grains

Why the increase in size over a overhead casting single handed rod,
because you do not progressively load the rod with the line in the sky, eg, false cast, and false cast a number of times till there is enough line load to shoot the line and fly to the selected loaction.

The Double will be loaded from the D loop.
The Double when useing a Shooting Head will only have the Head outside the tip before the final cast stroke.

Enough for now, a little more if requied tomorrow maybe.

Remember, there are no silly questions, just way of learning, the easy way.
Kind regards,
UB

Let me muddy the waters with another uninformed question, Uncle Barry. Can one buy or build a single-handed rod in 10 to 12-feet in length to use for highstick nymphing?

Aha Lastchance. Hijacking my thread huh? Changing the subject to high stick nymphing?

JUST KIDDIING. <GRIN> really really just kidding. It's all good mate.

In fact I am in the same mud you are. But I am changing. High stick nymphing is exackery why I purchased the 10' full flex 3wt blank from Global Dorber. (so it's a subject I also have an interest in...and therefore appreciate your question) I don't know what most people use high stick nymphing for but I have a little stream with some pools of water. I wanted to be able to reach out further in the stream and dead drift a nymph but didn't want a 10-12' 6wt cause I wanted less weight to be holding out over the stream.

THAT has changed. "MY" 10' 3wt is going to become a trout spey rod. I have all the parts to build it with the exception of the guides. I have guides...but I build my fly rods with undersized guides. So I have no bigger guides that may be required. I intend to build the handle all cork. No reel seat. Just a long cork with slip rings. I have the material for that. I have the blank. I just have to figure out the guides and I am good to go.

UNCLE BARRY.....PLS DON'T READ ALL MY RAMBLING AND FORGET TO ANSWER THE ABOVE QUESTION. .....please....

And a great big thank you for the latest post. Very helpful for me to build my rod.

This 10' 2 piece full flex blank is going to become so flexible you won't believe. I a going to make a 7-1/2" slip ring grip to be used on the tip section only. So I have a 5' rod I can use as a spinning rod or as a fly rod.

Then remove the 7-1/2" grip and put the two sections together. The butt section is going to have a 12 or 14" cork grip with slip rings. So it will now be a 10' rod that can be used as a single handed fly rod or still used as a spinning rod.

THEN...an attachable butt section with another 12" or so all same size cork...and with the slip rings already on it..... it can now be used as a two handed spey rod, or a two handed spinning rod.

I have a Battenkill LA 2 with 5 spools and an unlta lite spinning reel.

This rod may not be the perfect rod for any given situation...but it will be flexible enough to fish many different ways with the same rod.

Good Idea? ....or not?

Good evening,
In deep from the start,

Q1, "Can one buy or build a single-handed rod in 10 to 12-feet in length to use for highstick nymphing? "

YES, of course !
And why not, it just may shock you how many fish you can catch (reads as trick) with a longer rod.
Where on Earth this, it must be 9 foot idea came from God himself only knows !

Q2, Idea, "I wanted to be able to reach out further in the stream and dead drift a nymph but didn't want a 10-12' 6wt cause I wanted less weight to be holding out over the stream."

Some non thinking people think, little stream little rod, WRONG !
Because on a little stream all fish are on full alert, for someone or thing that may hurt or consume them as food.

Therefore to be a winner on little streams and catch the biggest fish, which must be the smartest fish in the stream you, the angler must be smarter than the average angler, be silent in your approach to the stream

And here is where the longer rod becomes a winner !
You the smarter than average angler can stand back from the edge of the little stream and reach out with your 10 or 11 foot rod and just drop that fly into the stream WITHOUT Mr Trout hearing you approach.

You can mend line without any effort, like, so whats all the fuss about this mending line while Trout fishing.

And of course, you can Spey cast, or Roll cast with a far lot effort even in a breeze. AND it goes further, the cast therefore your fly does also.

Some people, the ones with 10 foot or plus small line class fly rods, think that Roll Casting is the normal cast and 'that' Overhead cast that almost all conduct is the adnormal cast !

Did someone say, its only just one foot longer ?
Well friends thats what the 8 foot fly rod fella said to the 9 foot rod user, and the 9 foot guys, just smiled and went on his way fishing.

Weight, there isn't very much difference between a 9 and a 10 foot rod, check it and see for your self !

Q4, "No reel seat. Just a long cork with slip rings'
Great idea on a wee TS Rod !
This idea will allow you to adjust the reel to balance and to be comfortable to your lower hand grip...Top idea Jim !

Q5, 'This 10' 2 piece full flex blank is going to become so flexible you won't believe"
blo...dy fantastic for a wee TS Rod !

Q6, "So it will now be a 10' rod that can be used as a single handed fly rod or still used as a spinning rod.'
Then this is truely a Switch rod....(lets not confuse things, me included ! )

I will wager, once you have this new wee TS operational, thats all the rod will ever be and thats all you will ever wish to do, keep casting this rod !

Q7, "This rod may not be the perfect rod for any given situation'
Maybe not
BUT it will be about 200% more 'perfect' that a single handed rod when it comes to fishing AND catching fish !

To clear away some fog,
So called Bush Bashing with a long rod,
there is no difference between a 8 or 10 foot rod when your deep in the thick stuff, its all hard work, UNLESS, you being a smarter than average angler.. who just breakes the rod into sections and you could have a 3 or 5 foot rod section/s in your hands,,, which most for some odd reason never even think about !

The idea that you cannot use a TS from a small boat or float boat...... is totally wrong ! Lets say straight out mad.
I have heard this so many times, I am bored with the talk, and guess what, the talk ALWAYS COMES FROM.... people who do not use a TS Rod..hey, isn't that odd ?

Reel Seat, up or down.
Advantage of a up threading reel seat is the reel will clear your lower hand, which is an advantage.

Down threading RS the reel weight helps balance the rod with greater ease.

Why balance the rod or at least try to,
This will help stop over rotation of the rod during the cast, this is most helpful for new casters, not so important for old casters in command or so they think :(

The balance can also be adjusted by adding some lead sinkers and tapeing them on, above the reel seat.

Fingers are bleeding, now
Kind regards
UB
ps, more later if your not too bored with the subject.

Gemrod: Sorry if I jumped your thread--I didn't intend such a thing. I figured since we were talking about long rods my question fit the thread. Even after all these years of fly fishing (about 30) I've been confused with all the talk about switch and spey rods. I agree with you all, a longer rod will certainly benefit highstick nymphers.
Bruce

Bruce,

No big deal mate. You did not have to apologize. It IS all in the interest of long rods. I am just as confused as you are about spey, switch, two handed rods. I said in my post just kidding. I really meant that. I have the same questions as you do. I just shouldn't have posted it. I was really poking fun. I am in a good mood and a little teasing or brevity or laughter is good once in awhile. Your really really shoud not have taken it serious enough to post an apology. I apologize to you for saying it.

It was just a light hearted jibe and that is all. KEEP ASKING YOUR QUESTIONS ON HERE BRUCE. I am not getting much help except from Barry. The more the better.

Sorry Bruce. I didn't mean to taint your name or image. Just joking around. And I don't think I tainted your name. I think everyone...if anybody but Barry read it at all...took it as in jest only. It's all in the interest of long rods period.

Good morning,
PLEASE.. ask all the questions you wish, it matter not who is first or second or in any order, as the are no silly questions, just beaut fun exploring this silly game called fly fishing.

And if don't know, someone, I trust will make a suggestion and we ALL can explore that direction together.

In this way I can learn as much as the next guy.


AND NOW, (this does not make me feel good inside)
Could the fellow who send around a private message to a couple of members of this Forum, please add 'that' message (yes your reading this) to this set of posts.

And we can either,
allow you to finish the thread, and I will back out, totally
or we can debate what you wrote and explore your ideas and concepts.
or, it maybe better to close the thread right here and now....... thanks guys.

Or we can have your ideas and there by gain some knowledge and ideas and or concepts from EVERYBODY, yourself included.

To 'that' person, I have ONLY been fly fishing and casting AND bush bashing with a fly rod for about, lets say something like 50 years.
And in that time I think I have bush bashed where I shouldn't have more than once or twice.

Kind regards,
Barry

Good morning.

If anybody would like any suggestions and or idea and or help with the idea of a very light or just a wee Trout Spey rod, line or casting of same, please feel free to email me, privately and we can talk, just like someone has already from here.

As from me there will be no more TS talk here, this is to keep things running smoothly here, more so now at this very sad time in the life of FAOL, than ever.

Yes, 'you', you should feel proud, you have completed what you really wished for !

Kind regards,
Barry