I see things like this come up once in a while. My question is how does a person know whether or not this boo is worth buying?
http://lincoln.craigslist.org/spo/2088206163.html
thanks for looking I look forward to reading your answers
Fish
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I see things like this come up once in a while. My question is how does a person know whether or not this boo is worth buying?
http://lincoln.craigslist.org/spo/2088206163.html
thanks for looking I look forward to reading your answers
Fish
i'd ask the question here: clarksclassicflyrodforum.yuku.com. lots of folks who know boo there.
Virtually all bamboo has some value to a greater or lesser degree. The problem is determining how much that value is and the manufacturer doesn't always mean it is high or low though it plays an important factor. To me the model of the rod and condition are very big in determining the value. The model is going to tell me how fast the rod is, what action, length, number of pieces, quality of the hardware, mass produced, custom, etc... The manufacturer will tell me where it was made and of course by whom it was made. Keep in mind that even the mass manufacturers made custom or high end rods so the name of the rod and model number is very important to me in determining the value of the rod.
What the seller says in a description means very little unless it is accompanied by detailed photos. Lets face it I can tell anyone that this rod is mint but that doesn't mean a lot unless I can back it up with photos and plenty of them. I have seen so many of these rods described as mint that were actually anything but. Notice that this owner claims the rod has a Bakelite handle? the rod pictured has a cork grip on it though the reel seat ma well be Bakelite but without good pictures and an accurate detailed description one just cannot tell for certain. Now that rod looks like it might be a Horrocks - Ibbotson Governor. If that is so it is a mid grade rod. Some will call it a tomato stake while some, me for example, like those older H-I and Montague rods.
http://home.myfairpoint.net/and96jac...copy/id22.html
To me even grandfather's Western Auto bamboo rod has value. I just have to decide how much I want to pay for that value. An H-I governor in reasonable shape is probably worth the $65 asking price but if this seller cannot provide more detailed pictures then I would look elsewhere. As a rule of thumb most people pushing these rods on public marketing sites as trying to sell a low end rod as a high end one. They don't necessarily do it on purpose they just think that because it's bamboo and old it is automatically an expensive rod.
The Brand of this rod is Horrocks-Ibbotson, a low end bamboo rod maunfacturer. The "Tonkin" simply means it is made from Tonkin (the preferred cane) cane as opposed to the previously used Calcutta cane. It should have a name (model) written on it, typically in white ink, and reading from the tip to the butt of the rod. H-I was big on names such as: President, Governor, Senator, etc., and locations, such as: Saranac, Adirondack, Catskill, etc.
The photos posted are inadequate to tell whether or not this rod is mint, or if it has been used extensively. To be able to do such an assessment, one must have close-up photos of every part of the rod: reel seat, grip, signature wraps, guide wraps, decal, guides, and especially the ferrules. You should be able to determine whether or not there are any cracks in the ferrules, are there any sets in any sections, is there any delamination anywhere along the any of the sections, what the condition of the varnish is. Are there any dings in the cork handle (one cannot tell as the handle is not shown)? If so, how bad are they? Are the ferrules tight or not? Sometimes the only way to tell this is to put a reel and line on it and cast it and listen for 'clicks' at the ferrules. Are all guides present, and are any wraps exposed or frayed? Is the hardware nickle silver or nickle plated brass? Does it come with the original sock and tube? All of these are integral to ascertaining a 'market' value.
As nighthawk pointed out, even the low end rod makers produced some really great casting rods; especially in certain models. In today's 'vintage bamboo rod' market, the rods less than 9 feet long are much more in demand that the 9 ft and longer rods; hence the shorter rods are commanding higher prices. As he also points out, absent much better quality photos, and of the various areas of the rod, buyer beware!
Check out the offerings on that big auction site ( bamboo fly rods) to get a good idea of the kinds and number of photos that those who are 'in-the-know' post with their offerings, and to get some idea of the 'price range' for H-I rods. Clearly, some who post there have no more, or better, photos of their offerings than this one.
agedsage
... what else can you do with $65, and will it be anywhere nearly as valuable as the experience you can have just buying this rod ??
John
P.S. Man is most nearly himself when he achieves the seriousness of a child at play.
John:
If it is in good shape, AND if he is going to fish it, your point is valid. I see no real point in simply buying it, as you infer, to have any value, intrinsic or otherwise. If it is going to need a lot of repair work, and if he is not experienced at making such repairs, it could be a waste of $65.00, that might otherwise have been spent on a decent used bamboo rod, if it is a bamboo rod he is after. At $10.00 per guide to reattach a guide can add up in a hurry. If the guides are missing, then the cost of the guides has to be added in. Just a simple and quick example of what the additional expenses COULD be to make it fishable.
It is a pity that more, and better quality photos, weren't included!
agedsage
How serious are you? It might be worth the drive...on a good day that is.:D
Something else about that rod. It appears as though either the guides and or wraps have been replaced. That is not necessarily a bad thing but this person is selling this thing as never been fished, hum. Chances are that they actually know next to nothing about our sport or are just a novice about bamboo. That's alright too but if you are like that and going to sell some old bamboo you just came across recently you should do your home work first so you can present a complete, accurate, informative description for your sale.
The way this thing is presented just raises alarm flags big time with me. As aged sage points out there could be substantial rebuilding cost just to get this thing on the water again. If it were me I would look else where. $65 bucks could be used to buy you a good vintage reel to go with any potential boo you buy. Something like a Pfluger Medalist.
nighthawk again makes some very good points for your consideration.
At the moment, there are two of the higher quality H-I models listed on fleabay. One is a 3 piece "President", the lowest in their high end 9ft rods; and the other a "Princess", their high end 2 piece rod, and it is only 7 1/2 ft long. There is also a Wright & McGill rod listed, the only major draw back to which is that it is 9 1/2 ft long. Current bids on all are under $50.00. Wright & McGill is a highly respected make, and is the successor to Goodwin Granger; perhaps the best known of the Rock Mountain area mass builders.
One thing to pay particular attention to on the mid-lower range H-I rods is the cork handle. They used some of the poorest quality cork I have ever seen on some of these rods. Especially when they used 1" thick rings. Of their rods I have seen, their 1/2" ring handles have all been of much better quality.
On the bright side of all of my negative comments; if you are interested in ever building your own bamboo rod, this may be a real bargain even if it needs some fixing up, as it is not too expensive to use as a learner. I have dreams of building my own, and have a good start. I absolutely do not regret the money and time I have spent on 'fixer uppers' over the past 3 year, as I have gained a tremendous amount of insight into the nuances of working with bamboo; plus, I have some nice "old" bamboo rods for my sons and grandsons.
I have only had one 'bad' experience buying bamboo rods 'sight unseen'. It turned out to be a Japanese WW II knockoff of a very popular Heddon model, that to this day commands mid-high three-figure prices on the open auction market, and very high three to low four figure prices from a vintage tackle dealer. As they say, the price was too good to be true!!! With it's shortcomings, it will still be a nice little rod when I get through with it.
See if you can get the seller to send you more, and better detailed, photos. If he is reluctant to do so, I would say "RUN"! If he consents, post them here so we can do a better job of evaluating it for you.
Let us not forget that it is your money and your decision to make.
Keep us posted.
agedsage
Short honest answer, by doing some homework.
Longer, still honest answer. By putting a reel and line on it, casting and loading the rod with as much line in the air as the rod will carry, briskly double hauling and if it doesn't fly apart and you like how heavy it feels in your hand, then it's prolly worth it.
There are so many of these out there they can be had pretty cheap but a lot of times they're pretty ratty. I got a HI for $10 at a yard sale once. Have yet to restore it because later i found a higher quality cane rod in need of work for $60 and i haven't restored that yet either. Since the question was about 'worth', i won't weigh in on what i think of that model HI fly rod. Everyone's mileage will vary.
Cheers,
MontanaMoose
Quote:
Originally Posted by hugefish_80
I am far from an expert but do agree that more photo's are in order to get a good feel for the rod. But looking at it, it appears that there are intermediate wraps which were used on the higher end rods. Personally for $65.00 I would but it. Although some say that H-I were low end rods and compared to Orvis, Youngs and Grangers they still were able to throw a fly. I have an unmarked 8ft the I fished all over the west this past summer and it worked get. I refinished the rod with varnish, new guides and tiptop. I think I have less then $30.00 in the rod not including the $75.00 for the rod. I also have another unmarked 9ft that will throw a streamer a country mile. I took it to a BOO fest and it turns out that it is a double built SB. not bad for $110.00. If you are looking for a $500.00 rod for $65.00 don't bother with it.