as a guid I just want to know what people like and dislike about your past trip's so I can give my client's the best trip possable.
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as a guid I just want to know what people like and dislike about your past trip's so I can give my client's the best trip possable.
Hello Pat - That's a good question. What I expect from a guide is a compotent local knowledge, confidence, sobriety, good manners and a cheery spirit. I do not expect fish. A good shore lunch ain't bad either! Tight lines, Alec
Hi Pat,
I can give my view point on fishing with guides but I guess its different with everyone you meet. When I go with a guide I am looking for someone to teach me as much as I can about the location and technigues
to use in that area, I ask a lot of questions. I understand bad conditions happen too high/low/hot etc, I look for a guide who just tries his best with what conditions he has at hand and sometimes as a bonus things workout and we get into fish. While I am serious about fishing I also like to laugh and relax, otherwise I might as well go back to work. My wife still can't understand how I can wade the flats and she hears me and my guide laughing a mile away, and I still catch fish. The key is when we see fish we are serious for the precious minute or so, then I either hook up or blow the shot and its back to laughing, no whining for me, maybe a oh @#$% and thats it! I find if I am more relaxed with the guide I cast/fish better and it takes a little presure off on both of us.
Oh, also,please don't call me sir more than once, I know who my parents are!!!!
Take Care,
JohnP
Pat,
So nice to see a guide asking the question. There was a good (and comical) thread on the same idea last year at Dennis' ... e-mail me and I can find the link).
I haven't been doing this for long, so some of the "old guys" http://www.flyanglersonline.com/bb/wink.gif can jump right in (or on me) if I'm off the mark here.
A client can be looking for anything under the sun. Communication is the key to know if your service can provide what this particular client wants.
Some clients want to catch a fish, others want to fish on a beautiful river. Still others want to catch LOTS of fish. Some want to explore a famous river. A few want to catch lots of trophy fish on a beautiful and famous river.
I had a lighthearted (attempt) at a poll on [url=http://www.flyanglersonline.com/bb/Forum1/HTML/012818.html:bae88]http://www.flyanglersonline.com/bb/Forum1/HTML/012818.html[/url:bae88]
Funny thing, the questions are similar to those I'll ask a potentiel client when booking ...
Wade or float?
Do they want help/information or not (casting, technics, history, culture ...)?
Can they realistically express their casting and fishing capablities.?
(I have on a few occassions asked for references)
Clients ...
Ask for references.
What is cancellation policy?
Can the guide service provide a realistic evaluation of river conditions and fishing reports? (as say Ann can in Gasp? for Atlantics)
Is your guide competent ,... sure everyone starts somewhere, but do you want to be this guides FIRST solo client on the dream trip of your life ?
Tipping?
Rates?
A few question and some open and honest communcation goes a very long way to ensure that both the client AND the guide organise, plan and HAVE a pleasant day on the water.
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Christopher Chin
Jonquiere Quebec
[url=http://www3.sympatico.ca/chris_chin/:bae88]http://www3.sympatico.ca/chris_chin/[/url:bae88]
I once fished with a guide that was giving me crappy tippet material. I was losing a few fish and was wondering what the hell was going on. So I decided to check the tippet material while tying another fly on. It took 3 or 4 times to get the clinch knot to settle without breaking. At that point I realized that the material was very old so I used my own. Later that day he offered me flies and I told him that I would just use mine. He obviously overlooked a very important issue, I cant believe I gave him a tip. So what I look for is knowledge of the water, fish and what kind of gear he uses and most of all be professional.
Seege
[This message has been edited by FIREMAN (edited 08 March 2005).]
Seege,
I'm really sorry to hear that.
Speaking of gear the Guide uses (and I use a capital "G" as I'm speaking of the real thing, ... the guys and gals who'll bust their butt all day every day to see to it that the clients get every chance possible to have a pleasant day)Quote:
So what I look for is knowledge of the water, fish and what kind of gear he uses and most of all be professional.
Another item to keep clean up front, ... Will the Guide fish, expect to fish or be expected to fish.
When I guide for Salmo salar, you can't realistically fish beside a client. For many lies, you have to be where the fly is, not on the client's shoulder. For trout, that's another story. If a client NEEDS lessons, well I might have to take a rod in hand.
Problem is, on my homewaters, if we don't pay the rod fee for the day, I won't event touch a rod. Makes life less complicated for the Game Wardens. Then again, I'm not into asking the client to pay an extra 50$ just so's I can show off for 10 minutes. (many of my clients are more accomplished casters/ff's than me).
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Christopher Chin
Jonquiere Quebec
[url=http://www3.sympatico.ca/chris_chin/:a0fd0]http://www3.sympatico.ca/chris_chin/[/url:a0fd0]
[This message has been edited by fcch (edited 08 March 2005).]
Pat -- Before you begin the day, stop and find out what the customer expects. Make sure you can match his/her skills and expectations to the water you plan to fish. If you have a newbie fisherman, I doubt they can or want to strip streamers all day!
You might also ask a guy/gal if they would appreciate instruction throughout the day. Sometimes it can get rather irritating to have a guide telling you what to do all day long...
I come from the camp where a good lunch is appreciated. Some anglers don't care. I don't see how it can hurt, especially with a tip at the end of the day.
I personally hate buying flies before the trip begins. I think guide trips should include the flies necessary for the day.
Have fun at your job!
Paul,
Good point about flies, ... and you point out a bit of important personal preference.
You prefer the guide to be ready with flies, ... Other clients WANT to use their own. Either they tied them specially for the trip or a "reputable" ff back home proposed them. In this case, the guide sometimes needs a bit of "tact" to suggest his home water flies without putting down the ones the client has brought along.
I have a repeat client, ... really nice guy. Can't cast if his life depended on it. He ties his own. It took me a year to get him to try to tie the flies that would work up here.
Not a stubborn person. he just knows EXACTLY what he wants. And that's fine.
He wanted to (and has since done it) catch a salmon a one of his flies on his rod with a leader he tied. (rod which is WAY too stiff for his casting stroke)
I showed him the knots, made him practice in the off season. I've hauled him out of the pool when he starts his bad habits and made him cast a while on the grass. Yup ... Boot camp salmon fishing. He WANTED to get it right. (and he did) http://www.flyanglersonline.com/bb/smile.gif
Incidentaly, a few other guides didn't "prefer" this client. Seems they thought he has a bit stubborn. I found he just knew what HE WANTED.
After all, he (YOU) are the client. It's your day, your time and your money. "Spend" it wisely.
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Christopher Chin
Jonquiere Quebec
[url=http://www3.sympatico.ca/chris_chin/:cf5fd]http://www3.sympatico.ca/chris_chin/[/url:cf5fd]
[This message has been edited by fcch (edited 08 March 2005).]
Pat, have a big smile and know your water. Have a supply of the hot flies if needed and know your clients limitations. A kind instruction on what systems work and how to implement them is always appreciated. What are your clients goals for the day.
The old plan A B C D is always appreciated
My .02
Philip
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I look into... my fly box, and think about all the elements I should consider in choosing the perfect fly: water temperature, what stage of development the bugs are in, what the fish are eating right now. Then I remember what a guide told me: 'Ninety percent of what a trout eats is brown and fuzzy and about five-eighths of an inch long.' - Allison Moir.
I wonder if he ever fished Saltwater.
Pat:
You are obviously a smart man in the fact you are asking these questions.
There is a lot of good feedback here already so hopefully I can add something new. A guide needs to be a good listener and enjoy providing what the client wants. Someone here gave some good advise and that was to find out up front what the client wants on a guided trip. I took a trip several years ago with my youngest son. I had been on several guided trips on my home river and asked if the guide could give my son some help in learning to cast. Turns out our guide had been a junior high school teacher for several years and he did a great job!
I expect the guide to know the waters and what the fish are taking at the time I am fishing. I often use a guide on unknown waters. I also like it when he offers to show me places I may fish the next day or without a guide.
A guide should be pleasant, good spirited, and make the trip fun for the client. I realize some clients are more challenging than others but a guide is there to provide expert advise and make it fun.
On a guided trip, if the guide is not going to provide the flies needed or at least offer the flies needed, he should tell the client that at the time of the booking, not when the client arrives at the fly shop. That few dollars added expense can ruin a potential return client, not based on the dollar value, but the way it was handled. As a guide you are in the service business. Provide the services the customer is seeking.
I will get off my soap box now. Sorry for the lengthy post.
Dr Bob
Christopher, I'm gonna hire you if I'm ever in your neck of the woods....you're my ideal of a great guide.
I take a guided trip or two each year on my "Home water" and the guides knowledge and patience make all the difference. I ask for a different guide each time to learn more about the river and to find out how they help their clients. If a guide can help me with casting, tying, reading water, boat handling, entomology, or any other aspect, I appreciate the effort.
That being said, I have had two guides in recent years who I would not recommend. One used his cell phone to make 3 personal calls while on the water, and one didn't offer a single piece of advice during a 6 hour float. In fact, he hardly spoke during the whole trip, even when a direct question was asked.
I do have a favorite that I go with every year. He knows and loves the river, gives me something to think about each trip, and sends me a Christmas card each year. He and I are now good friends (15 years of fishing) and although he always offers to take me for free, I pay his full rate plus tip. In return he shares his bugs and tying tips, has given my daughter free casting lessons, and taken me bobcat hunting. I have a greater appreciation of the river and the sport because of him.
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RG/AR,
Just to keep this on an even keel, I only guide part time ... I spend more time promoting the river than guiding. The salmon rivers in quebec (99%) are managed by non-profit organisations, so I'm not trolling for clients. http://www.flyanglersonline.com/bb/wink.gifQuote:
I'm gonna hire you if I'm ever in your neck of the woods
Bob mentionned "I also like it when he offers to show me places I may fish the next day or without a guide."
I find this is an important part of a guides job. I'm looking to "cultivate" return ff's to my home waters. I had a good client that has become a fine friend. Last time he called to book, I told him flat out that he didn't need a guide. He came up, had a wonderful week of fishing and I went down to fish a few days with him. (He brought the JD and I brought some aged sharp cheddar that a local makes).
Fun all around.
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Christopher Chin
Jonquiere Quebec
[url=http://www3.sympatico.ca/chris_chin/:a8803]http://www3.sympatico.ca/chris_chin/[/url:a8803]
Rowing! Lots and lots of rowing http://www.flyanglersonline.com/bb/wink.gif
Pat,
I hope to get a fishing buddy for the day. I want the guide to treat me as though he/she were fishing with an old friend that had come into town for the weekend. In addition, knowledge of river, entemology and a good sense of humor. (I laugh at myself, the guide might as well laugh too).
I went out in a boat from Port Hardy BC , It was off season and I got a pretty good deal for the day , the guide was going to fish one line , Me the other . We would target Coho and Hope a big Chinook would call in . Not a problem because that is the deal we struck . However , I caught 2 coho in the 15lb range in the first 2 hours . He couldn't raise a fish on the gear he was using . I got on and broke off quite a large fish that May have been a Chinook , Wow the guide acted like a 5 year old , temper temper . When I suggested he switch to what I was using , I got a "that stuff don't work , you were just lucky" . HUH?
Then Mr wonderful fired up and changed locations and began to jig for Cod . Not the Guide you'd ever recommend to anybody. I have been on several guided trips before this and several since this trip and its is the only time I ever encountered such a jerk .
I once had a guide tell me up front that He wouldn't take me Coho fishing because the giant Chinook had showed up in the area . The PR value from Large Chinook catches Helped promote his guiding service and was too good for him pass up . No problem , He was up front with me and I understood his point of view So we went out after the big guys and wound up catching 3 Coho anyway , no Chinook .
I liked the guy and would go with him again .
I stayed at a lodge where the year before we had one of the best guides I've ever seen who worked hard nonstop and wanted us to catch lots of fish.
The next year we were told he left and figured it was no big deal that we'd be with a different guide. Our guides ended up being drunk Cree Indians who actually seemed to try and put the boat where we wouldn't catch. I started ordering them around to get to the spots where fish were and things would improve but they'd constatntly keep us out of casting range. They also would drink all of our beers if we weren't looking. Those guys sucked. One day they took a break to deal with a bear that they had trapped which was cool and all but we were there to fish. Needless to say we went somewhere else the next year and will never go back.
As a guide I try to tailor my skills to my clients. I like to know before hand what they expect. Will they fish nymphs? The answer is no more often than you'd expect. Honestly, what is their skill level? I don't want to take some beginners with poor eyesight on a float where we could encounter few large fish takning olives or midges. That would be frustrating for both of us.
What most of us freaks on this board want out of a day is not what the average client wants. Most people seem to want an enjoyable day where I have the right bug and put them in the right spot to hook as many fish as the conditions allow. A clean vehicle, a comfortable boat, a good lunch, being on time or early, staying on the water as long as they want (I'll row off in the dark if they want it, but you have to consider that many don't), enthusiasm, and the offer to teach new skills if they want to learn. I also have the best gear for my clients because they could show up with those crappy Martin combos from Sprawl Mart, and those things ain't worth a S&%@.
My favorite clients are the ones who are here to learn and improve their skills, weather it's casting or reading water or picking flies. I like the guys who won't stop for lunch if the fishing is good. I also like beginners, it's nice to get someone their first fish and get them hooked on the whole idea. I had one guy say he'd never spin fish again after his first day of ffing, that was nice.
Benjo,
I feel that's one of the real perks about guiding... seening that "look" when yo just know the guy (or gal) is hooked for life http://www.flyanglersonline.com/bb/smile.gifQuote:
I also like beginners, it's nice to get someone their first fish and get them hooked on the whole idea. I had one guy say he'd never spin fish again after his first day of ffing, that was nice.
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Christopher Chin
Jonquiere Quebec
[url=http://www3.sympatico.ca/chris_chin/:75478]http://www3.sympatico.ca/chris_chin/[/url:75478]
It would be nice, to end the trip back at my car!
~Parnelli
Patience is very important.
Also promptness in replying to e-mails, calls, etc. I had a guide on my previous trip to New Zealand who I really enjoyed fishing with. When I went to book him again, I got no response to my e-mails. I waited about a month, but finally had to finalize travel arrangements and so booked another guide. Of course I finally got a reply from guide #1 shortly thereafter, but it was too late.
I also recall going salmon fishing with a group, which was paid for by the company that I worked for at the time (I wish I still had perks like that). I vividly remember the guide running below decks to pee just as we were entering the moorage area (a long narrow channel full of boats)
Before we could react, of course, we had glanced off acouple of boats. Although we were travelling at minimal speed, it seemed to be a strange time for a pee break. Taking rest breaks at the proper time has now become a consideration when I hire a guide.
I guided out of South Florida and the Keys for over 15 years and made a good living at it. Had it not been for some physical problems I'd probably still be down there fishing.
IMO the most important things a guide can do for his/hers party is to educate and entertain. Have a good working knowledge of your local waters and quarry. If the fish eat, be able to explain why, if they don't, be able to also explain that. Get to know your clients, most people really appreciate that you take the time to find out a little about them and they're not just another pay check. Most of my good customers became close friends. Never, I repeat never, try to BS a customer. They're a hell of a lot smarter than they act. The people you want as return customers will understand that you can't limit out every day. Show some concern for the environment, if you see some trash that you can pick up and dispose of in the right place, do it. Not only does it make the area a better place to be, but it'll show that you really care about what you do for a living. I could go on and on, but you get the picture. Most of it's common sense.
I knew when my people were happy with my services when at the end of a day with no/few fish, they booked some more trips. Remember, it's a service business. If you don't provide the best service you can, you won't be in business a very long time.
If you've been guiding for any time at all, I don't have to tell you that it's one of the hardest jobs going. Just do it the best way you can.
Pat - I have never used a guide, and probably never will, so can't answer your question directly. However, I can answer what I expect of a guide as a non-guided local fisherman and that is common courtesy. I live in an area with tons of guides and several famous rivers. Unfortunately, often the guides seem to think that because they have a paying customer they have some ownership rights to the river that others do not have. I consider myself fairly level-headed under most situations, but some days certain guides have given me cause to consider giving them a good dunking. So far, cool heads prevailed and I left - that's not to say I have never thrown a rock in the water they are fishing or said anything, just haven't dunked anyone - yet. So, in short, common courtesy is appreciated by all.