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.... do any of you use these rods for small ponds?
Do the rods roll cast? I assume they would. A lot of ponds/rivers I frequent I couldn't think about throwing even this little bit of line as one would a "normal" fly rod, ie, with a backcast.
Have any of you fished from kayak/canoe with these rods? Talk about stealth!! :mrgreen:
Hmmm ... I can see a whole new way of fishing evolving for me. No trout streams here in Florida but TONS of bluegill, crappie, small bass, etc, etc.
These rods can do whatever you want. To actually roll cast, you need to use something heavier than the standard lines like a section of fly line. Here is something I wrote on the TenkaraUSA site on a thread on the weight of tenkara rods:
"Okay guys. Ever the contrarian, I have to agree and disagree. As many of you know if you read my posts, I do a lot of non-traditional tenkara fishing. I don't always relate my exploits here because sometimes I use rods that are not tenkarausa rods and out of respect and admiration for Daniel, I do not write about other available equipment.other than lines and flies.
Okay, for the topic at hand: I suspected that tenkara rods are underated as to strength so I have been experimenting a lot to see for myself. I have since the beginning used 4x to 0x tippets and have never broken tip because I was landing a fish on heavy tippet. Today I took a perfectly good 1 wt forward Orvis line and cut off the first 30 feet. I did the same with the first 30 feet of a DT 6 wt line. I put leaders on both and then attached a backing loop to the rear end of both. First I tried the 30 feet of One weight line. No problem casting the whole thing except when in the wind. I changed and used the 30 feet of double taper six weight. It was a revelation!. The rod that casts the lightest of lines with ease handled this 30 foot traditional line with ease. Not too surprising to me, my 11 foot Iwana performed even better as did another manufacturer's 6:4 rod. I suspect a 7:3 rod could probably handle even heavier lines. This is important because it means fewer limitations and much more flexibility with all tenkara rods. The rods roll cast this heavier line with ease. There are only two limitations that are readily obvious. You have to hand over hand the fish in at the end (I do this all the time because I already fish longer lines with heavier tippets). If you can't back up on a river or shoreline, then a fish swimming right at you can be a problem (less if you are using a barbed hook which I do sometimes if I have every intention of eating the fish (warmwater and saltwater situations for me-it has been years since I purposely harvested a trout).
I thought about this because I have had both bamboo and fiberglass and graphite regular fly rod and reel combos that would collapse under certain line weights and then perform exceptionally well with a line two or sometimes even three weights heavier than rated under certain conditions and vice versa.
The reason for this is because rods perform differently based upon what part of the rod is doing the work. With long light tip sections, tenkara rods can cast very light near weightless lines. This is perfect for stream situations traditionally described and taught on this and other sites. But because of the length of these rods, they have tremendous butt strength. It takes a very heavy line to bend the rod deep enough to get into and exploit this strength. Once you realize this, however, it greatly expands your horizons. With the right line leader combination I can use all my tenkara rods from 9 footers to 13 footers and other rod/poles that are even longer and cast 1/0 Clousers and big bass bugs and 1/8th ounce hand tied jigs. I can use lighter spinning lures, bass worms, baits, etc. just by adjusting lines and tippets.
The lifting power of these rods is amazing but just as with traditional fly rod and reel setups, you do have to be careful with over stressing the rods by the bend you put in them when you snag or when you lift a heavy fish.
So there you have it. I don't know what weight my tenkara rods are but they will handle fish at least as well as a six weight traditional fly rod and reel, and I routinely used to land steelhead up 35 1/2" on my 5wt 4pc 8'3" Sage DS fly rod configured with a 6 or 7wt line (always heavier than rated) and old Pflueger Medalist fly reel. I don't know yet if I can do that on a tenkara rod because I haven't hooked one yet to know. I do know that have landed bigger fish than I thought because the long rods can absorb the shock of big fish.
Experiment. You might be pleasantly surprised."
If you go to the Allfishingbuy site and look at the Customer's Gallery, you'll see a lot of the fish I have caught with rods he sells although as of this writing he doesn't have my latest submissions using my Wakata 13'. You can see I do a lot of warmwater fishing with my tenkara rods and other rods/poles.
Randy
Randy,
I totally agree with almost everything you said. Tenkara rods can fish a surprisingly wide range of line sizes and weights. Once you decide to enter the realm of chuck and duck, the sky may be the limit. I personally don't find that a pleasant way to fish, but that is purely personal preference.
Where I disagree, fish a heavy enough tippet, catch a big enough fish, the rod WILL break. When applying increasing amounts of stress on a fixed system, sooner or later something is going to fail. The weakest link is typically going to be the tippet, or the rod. I'll bet on the rod failing before 0x tippet every time.
I have landed countless steelhead on five weight reeled outfits. I have only inadvertently hooked one steelhead to date on a tenkara rod. Long story short, I was trying to undo a tangle created by my wife. The tangle had effectively taken the tippet out of play. The epic battle lasted less than two seconds. The good news is all that happened is that the lilian was pulled off the rod tip. Of course when you loose your lilian, you also loose whatever line you are fishing.
There is a big difference, with a reel system, I may have over 100 yards of line at my disposal to get a fish under control, with a fixed-lenght-line system, I have 20 or 30 feet. If I don't turn the fish instantly, something is going to give. I think the main reason we all like to fish for steelhead, they don't turn easily.
Gil,
Alot of folks fish exclusively lakes and ponds for warm water denizens. It's a great way to go.
In addition to being able to roll cast in tight spots, another effective way to place your fly on target is a bow and arrow cast. Not the most esthetic way to fly fish, but it does work.
I don't know that I have ever done a roll cast with a tenkara rod - and that's after 3 1/2 seasons of fishing nothing but tenkara rods (or similar poles with the line tied to the rod tip). I generally fish with a line that is about the length of the rod, plus about 4' of tippet. If I tried to do a classic roll cast, there wouldn't be enough line still in the water to give you the anchor for the cast. I mostly fish streams, with my back casts going downstream between the streamside trees, and casts going upstream. If I'm in a really tight spot, I'll use a bow and arrow or slingshot cast, which works very nicely with a tenkara rod.
On ponds I always fish from a canoe, and a tenkara rod is so much nicer than a regular fly rod in a canoe that you wouldn't believe it. My fly line always used to catch on everything from my paddle t-grip to my fly box to my water bottle, etc. The tenkara line doesn't ever get into the canoe. For this, you'd want the longest rod, either 13 or 13.5 feet, and probably a 6:4 or 7:3 action.
I have broken a rod by using tippet that was too strong for the rod, although it wasn't a tenkara rod. It was a cheap panfish pole, but it only took 6.4# test tippet (and the biggest trout I've ever hooked in my life) to break it - and it didn't break in one of the tip sections you can get replacements for, it was in the lower butt sections, where the stress is concentrated if you are trying to stop a big fish. If you tie good knots and your tippet isn't nicked or abraded, it is surprisingly hard to break your tippet if there is a bend in your rod - which of course there would be if you had a fish on. Tenkara fishing is not like regular fly fishing where any good sized fish is going to run and you've got a hundred feet of line being pulled through the water and around rocks by the fish. You have a short line from the fish straight up to your rod and the rods are very good at protecting your tippet. I don't catch big fish (only up to about 17" on tenkara rods) but since I broke the pole, I've never used or needed tippet stronger than 5x. If you're going to be catching panfish and small bass, you won't either. (Stripers and redfish are a whole 'nother story.)
... casting technique using my medium fast conventional fly rods to develop a modified roll cast that does not require anchoring on the water, and that cast works well with Tenkara rods, better in fact, with the slower action Ayu.Quote:
Originally Posted by CM_Stewart
It is kind of difficult to describe, but I will give it a go. When you start a conventional backcast with your conventional gear, you lift and pull the line off the water and cast it overhead behind you. Duh !!! When you start the basic roll cast with a spey rod, you pull the line off the water but low to the water, and land the last 15' or so of line ( plus the leader and tippet ) on the water to your right and in front of you just as you complete the "D loop". When the line hits the water, you get an anchor and start the forward cast. ( Any experienced spey casters should feel free to correct or elaborate on this rudimentary description of how I recall using a spey rod a number of years ago. )
Fishing with my conventional rods on medium size streams where there was little room for a backcast, I started doing the spey type movement with a water anchor for a roll cast, but then tried starting the forward cast before the line hit the water. Eventually, I got the feel for this cast down and got the timing right and found that I could consistently cast reasonably accurately for a moderate distance. With the longer, slower action Tenkara rod, the cast works quite well, to the point that I use it almost as much, if not more, than a more conventional overhead backcast. ( Except with those heavily weighted nymphs that would probably end up hitting me in the knee, or thereabouts, if I tried casting them that way. )
The key to this cast seems to be the ability to watch the fly as it comes at you low to your right, and, just as it comes even with your body, power out a strong forward cast. With conventional gear, the weight of the line and the movement of the rod load the rod sufficiently to make a pretty good forward cast, including a decent change of direction cast. With a Tenkara rod, I think it is simply the bending of the rod that loads it and the string just follows along.
Especially with the Tenkara rods, very little line, if any, actually goes past and behind your casting position. Virtually all the line is taken up in a rather shallow D Loop so the room you need behind you is determined more by how far back you take the rod tip than the length of the line.
John
P.S. This modified cast does not lend itself to false casting, at all.
P.S.1 I am a totally unschooled caster. Someone who has been taught how to cast properly and uses good casting technique as a matter of course may have trouble adapting to this way of getting the fly back on the water.
Chris makes a good point. As I think back, I've never made a roll cast fishing a stream/river. When fishing moving water I use a set up very similar to that described by Chris (or maybe a foot or two longer). I also fish large rivers, so I'm not concerned about my back cast.Quote:
Originally Posted by CM_Stewart
When fishing ponds, from shore, I do use a line considerable longer, usually up to 2x-2.5x longer. With that longer line, and shore line vegetation, I do use something at least resembling a roll cast. I personally find I have to slow down my stroke and it works fine.
With the longer lines, I find it tough to do a bow and arrow cast (which does work great with shorter lines.)
In any case, if you get a rod, you'll find you'll have fun playing around with it.
WOW ... thanks for all the replies. "Peaked my interest" is now an understatement. :D