Foam black ant woes

I bought some foam black ants at Sportsman's Warehouse, and yesterday 2 of them were ruined after one fish...the wraps holding down the foam unraveled after releasing the trout -- toothy browns.

My home-tied traditional thread-bodied ants survived a couple trout just fine. I whip finish both the butt and the head. They ride lower in the water than the foam ones but still seem to work fine.

Did I just buy low-quality foam ants, or is this typical? Call me old-fashioned, but foam bodies have not impressed me so far on any fly -- they seem to shred easily.

DAN

danbob,

Maybe it's me but I think foam is often(not always) tough to tie in well. Some threads or too much pressure on the wraps cut through the foam. The foam may slide around the shank or where it's put in place. The fly, especially small ones, may not be very durable. Does that mean you got low-quality flies? Maybe. I think it's more likely for foam to break and then the wraps becoming undone, especially with smaller flies. This can happen because of trouts teeth or possibly removing the fly using hemostats. If the wraps are becoming undone and the foam is still in place, yes, the quality of the fly sux.

Allan

Dan, I donot like tying small foam ants. They are not very durable as you found out. I usally tie with foam on larger flies such as hoppers. I tie ants using dubbed fur.

Bill

When I tie foam ants, small or medium, I tie in the foam at center, add my legs, lift the front section and whip finish under the foam, just behind the eye. A drop of head cement and it'll last fairly well. Also, if you lay down a thread wrap before applying the foam, the body won't slide around the hook, and the whip finish under the front section secures it to the hook, too.

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Trouts don't live in ugly places



[This message has been edited by Betty Hiner (edited 12 August 2005).]

Dan,

Tie my foam ants similar to Betty's. Lay down a thread base, then cover with glue/cement, add either flat foam or sometimes a round foam split halfway through down the middle, I tie in at three locations to segment the ant, tie in Tennessee Boar hair legs in the middle (courtesy of son's hunting trip) instead of rubber or hackle etc., and finish with an orange post on top so I can see the rascals in the foamy water etc. Have fished one ant all day without unraveling; but, only for small stream rainbows and browns, not the big toothy bruisers you're referring to. Be happy to send some of my ugly creations for you to test if you'll drop me your snail mail
address. E-mail is in my profile. Just refer to FAOL Foam Ants in the header.

[This message has been edited by Grn Mt Man (edited 12 August 2005).]

I use alot of foam in my gill flies. Lay down a thread base. A tiny drop of Zap A Gap.Tie in the foam, over wrap with thread to hook bend. Most foams will compact down to almost nothing. With this method the foam won't turn. I don't think any fly is designed to last forever due to the nature of the materials, but unraveling threads is a problem with the manufacture.IMHO.

Sometimes there is so much pressure
on the foam (from the thread) that
it will cut through the foam and
make the fly come apart, and the thread
unwinds. I don't like to use foam
on small ants for this reason.
Just one bite from a fish can be enough
to make the fly "pop apart".

For larger hoppers, I do not seem to
have as much of a problem.

My 2 cents worth.

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**MW**

I love "the dubbed body" for all my ties,I do use foam from time to time,But mostly where Bass and Blugies are the targeted species ( Much softer mouth's) and still carry extra's as I know they'll not stand up to the punnishments the fish ( & I ) will inflict upon em...

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"I've often wondered why it is that so many anglers spend so much money on,and pay so much attention to.the details on the wrong end of the fly line.If they took as much care in selecting or tying their flies as they did in the selection of the reel and rod,They might be able to gain the real extra edge that makes it possible to fool a fish that has,in fact,seen it all before" A.K.Best

"Wish ya great fishing"

Bill

Thanks for the info. This place (FAOL) is just awesome! I was flailing around last night with antron dubbing, found the message about that, and fixed the problem. You folks are great!
DAN

Dan,

Got your e-mail. Will try and get some foam ants in Monday's mail. Let me know if they work any better then the store bought variety. Will send some round and some flat foam so you can compare the two. Will slip in a "go to" fly to experiment with too.

Dan,

Not sure what the problem was, but, I know that I use cement on the thread wraps before putting any foam on a hook. This makes the fly more durable plus keeps the foam from turning on the hook. Also, keep in mind that store bought flies usually have no cement used on them anywhere. They are production tied flies and they do not want them to last too long or you would not be back to purchase more!

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Warren

danbob:

I use a lot of foam in my tying and I concur on the advice given. I also find that using heavier thread like 3/0 Monocord and lighter pressure helps reduce the thread cutting problem. I use Bill Skilton?s Foam products and I have beetles that I?ve caught dozens of fish with that still are going strong.
[url=http://www.billskilton.com:00f05]http://www.billskilton.com[/url:00f05]