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So...bass flies for the bass that eat plastic worms...
Topic says it all. I've been plying the lakes by some of my families' property, and I've thrown everything in my arsenal at these bass. Only pick up the occasional straggler. Meanwhile, my brother and brother-in-law are standing literally right down the bank from me and catching one after the other on purple and black plastic worms, rigged carolina? style (sliding bullet head weight on the line above the hook). I've tried clousers, marabou flies of all sorts and colors, rabbit leeches, a few concoctions of my own, fished at varying depths, and for some reason just can't get these bass to bite.
About 2 hours ago I caught a 6 lb'er on a plastic worm (sue me) out of one of these lakes, and I HAVE to figure out how to do it on the fly. People have caught 10 and 11 lb'ers out of this lake as well.
The strange thing is, all of the bass flies I tie, I catch 6-10lb channel cats on out of these same lakes. Go figure?
Also worth noting is that spinnerbaits, topwaters, jigs, and crankbaits have all been used without success on these bass.
There is just something about that damned plastic worm that I can't reproduce. Anyone got any advice?
-edit- Just the other day I lost a channel cat that was easily pushing 15 lbs to a log (damn my 4 wt rod). I hooked it on a marabou clouser-ish thing I tie, I think it was a #1/0.
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Re: So...bass flies for the bass that eat plastic worms...
There was a thread on this previously,,,A bunch of pages back you should find it.
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Re: So...bass flies for the bass that eat plastic worms...
ok I'll check out search. If anyone has anything to add, I'd appreciate it.
-edit-
search turned up http://www.flyanglersonline.com/flyt...03105fotw.html
i believe im set...
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Re: So...bass flies for the bass that eat plastic worms...
I found it,,,BUT! The posts within it seem to have disappeared!
I could not view the topic! :(
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Re: So...bass flies for the bass that eat plastic worms...
Well that just sucks. I think I figured out what I'm doing wrong though. I'm thinking too much like a tackle fisher, fishing too fast and with too much weight. Thats the ticket!
To the tying bench!
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Re: So...bass flies for the bass that eat plastic worms...
You might want to try tying up a few Hard hackle worms. They work here in TN for bass. John
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Re: So...bass flies for the bass that eat plastic worms...
The one fly I found that could take the place of a plastic bass worm:The Gully Worm!
http://www.orvis.com/store/product_choi ... at_id=6522
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Re: So...bass flies for the bass that eat plastic worms...
Quote:
Originally Posted by louisianajeff
You might want to try tying up a few Hard hackle worms. They work here in TN for bass. John
hard-hackle worm is the link i threw up there on my last edit, heh. got a few tied up already. Its fall break at my college, so tomorrow I'm gonna be out on the lake with em. I have confidence in them.
of course, I have confidence in every fly I tie, otherwise they'd just sit in a drawer and never get fished. We'll see.
flyandtie, do you think that one is just woven woolly chenille or something similar? looks like it would twist up really easily when cast (my biggest problem with my worm imitations - some of which look just like that)
-edit- accidentally quoted myself >_>
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Re: So...bass flies for the bass that eat plastic worms...
Quote:
Originally Posted by louisianajeff
Quote:
Originally Posted by louisianajeff
You might want to try tying up a few Hard hackle worms. They work here in TN for bass. John
hard-hackle worm is the link i threw up there on my last edit, heh. got a few tied up already. Its fall break at my college, so tomorrow I'm gonna be out on the lake with em. I have confidence in them.
of course, I have confidence in every fly I tie, otherwise they'd just sit in a drawer and never get fished. We'll see.
flyandtie, do you think that one is just woven woolly chenille or something similar? looks like it would twist up really easily when cast (my biggest problem with my worm imitations - some of which look just like that)
-edit- accidentally quoted myself >_>
You could click on the recipe part of that page right under the fly and I bet it would tell you as I'm not sure.
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Re: So...bass flies for the bass that eat plastic worms...
Tie up some serpent flies,an old Dave Whitlock pattern.Use 4 long,slinky saddle hackles for the tail, a chenille body with a palmered hackle,and large bead chain eyes.Yellow or purple work best for me.
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Re: So...bass flies for the bass that eat plastic worms...
You're getting a lot of good advice here on flies, but I would add that technique is also going to be a consideration here. I think you were dead on when you said you needed to slow down and fish lighter weighted flies. Whatever fly you choose, it should fall slowly, move as much as possible on the fall (marabou, rabbit fur, etc. moves a lot even when the fly is stationary or falling) and you should be able to retrieve it slooooowlly. These don't sound like fish that are used to chasing their food. That you are catching big cats, but not bass, is interesting. Bass are on the menu for big cats so your bass may be holding on ambush points towards the bottom trying to stay out of the way of cruising catfish. Just my thoughts on a few possibilities.
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Re: So...bass flies for the bass that eat plastic worms...
Quote:
Originally Posted by louisianajeff
There is just something about that damned plastic worm that I can't reproduce. Anyone got any advice?
No fly will ever match the feel (and oftentimes the smell) of a plastic worm. That's why it's the best bass catcher of all time.
Just give in and throw an actual plastic worm with your fly rod, ala Tom Nixon and Jack Ellis.
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Re: So...bass flies for the bass that eat plastic worms...
You can throw a plastic bait on a fly rod (I've done it occasionally for whites as well as largemouths). However, and Ellis has mentioned this in at least one of his books, you have to be careful the bass doesn't have a chance to get the worm too deep before you know he is there. You don't have the same connection to the lure that you have with a spinning rod or baitcaster. The new organic plastic substitutes make this an even bigger issue since the scent and texture cues are more convincing and the bass is more likely to swallow first and ask questions later. because of that, I tend to back away from plastics. Unless, of course, nothing else is working :?
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Re: So...bass flies for the bass that eat plastic worms...
I have an observation to share. You mentioned that topwater was out, the bass werent hitting on top at this time of the year. I have found when that to be the case, you will have a hard time duplicating the success of a spin fisherman. More to the point, you seem frustrated at your lack of success compared to theirs.....you have to remember your comparing apples to oranges. If it is a competition, switch to your spinning rod! Im certainly not admonishing you for it, when I go out with my buddies, there is a certain competitve nature to it. But the satisfaction of landing A bass with your fly rod (on less than ideal topwater conditions where a fly rod is superior to spinning) is what your game is about. To the spin fisherman, its about numbers and pounds. Two different mindsets!
I have a dear friend who is an excellent bass fisherman in Virginia. He takes me out to private ponds where he can land as many bass as he wants with soft plastics. When he is out with his other buddies, that is what the game is, how many and how large. But when its he and I, he switches it up to the fly rod and it becomes a much harder game. Again, especially when they arent hitting on top. And he appreciates each one he catches that much more.
One day he grew frustrated without landing anything and switched backed, where he started to of course catch lots of bass. I continued with my conehead muddler for another 30 minutes when he started to give me the "c'mon, the fly isnt working today, just switch it up" My persistence paid off when I finally landed a 3lb'er. Not a huge bass, but a huge accomplishment. I had to catch one, then I went to the spinning rod.
There are days and conditions when a fly rod will be superior to a spinning outfit, but that is the exception not the rule. My opinion only, hope it helps
Chuck
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Re: So...bass flies for the bass that eat plastic worms...
Another good fly is the shoe lace fly. Tie a shoe lace onto a hook, then tie a small piece of closed cell foam on the tail end. This causes the tail to float as its hopped across the bottom. Oh, weight the nose end so it sits nose down on the bottom, just like a plastic worm Texas-rigged.
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Re: So...bass flies for the bass that eat plastic worms...
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrhyne56
Another good fly is the shoe lace fly. Tie a shoe lace onto a hook, then tie a small piece of closed cell foam on the tail end. This causes the tail to float as its hopped across the bottom. Oh, weight the nose end so it sits nose down on the bottom, just like a plastic worm Texas-rigged.
I like that idea. Unconventional. Although I'm likely to use all my shoelaces and not have any shoes to wear if it works, heh. All of my ceilling fans are stuck on high because I used all the bead chain for dragon nymphs (i blame the bluegills) :shock:
Thanks for the advice guys.
to Cheli, I know I am comparing apples to oranges, but you have to understand that my family is the kind that gets in fights over Candyland. Ive seen many a chutes and ladders game get 'palmed', heh. we are extremely competitive. oh, and also we never seem to get many bass on topwater for some reason. *shrug*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluegill222
You're getting a lot of good advice here on flies, but I would add that technique is also going to be a consideration here. I think you were dead on when you said you needed to slow down and fish lighter weighted flies. Whatever fly you choose, it should fall slowly, move as much as possible on the fall (marabou, rabbit fur, etc. moves a lot even when the fly is stationary or falling) and you should be able to retrieve it slooooowlly. These don't sound like fish that are used to chasing their food. That you are catching big cats, but not bass, is interesting. Bass are on the menu for big cats so your bass may be holding on ambush points towards the bottom trying to stay out of the way of cruising catfish. Just my thoughts on a few possibilities.
You are probably right about the cats. These lakes are strange because they are full of big alligators, alligator gars and choupique(bowfin to the non-cajuns)
http://www.louisianaseafood.com/spec...ges/bowfin.jpg
i couldnt find a good picture of it but they have loads of sharp teeth. ours tend to be in the 12lb range.
between those big predators, the snapping turtles, herons, kingfishers, and cormorants, bass are pretty far down on the food chain. they tend to be really spooky.
in any case, thanks for the replies guys, I've got some tying to do before my trip to the lake today. Ill try some of everything mentioned here and see what happens. I may even fish plastic on the fly
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Re: So...bass flies for the bass that eat plastic worms...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluegill222
However, and Ellis has mentioned this in at least one of his books, you have to be careful the bass doesn't have a chance to get the worm too deep before you know he is there. You don't have the same connection to the lure that you have with a spinning rod or baitcaster.
Yes, that was in "The Sunfishes", his first book. He noticed that problem with sinking lines. He switched to fishing the worm on a floating line in "Bassin' with a Fly Rod", and the problem went away.
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Re: So...bass flies for the bass that eat plastic worms...
There are two things that significantly separate the plastic worm from our 'flies' when bass fishing.
Everyone want's to point to the 'feel' of a plastic bait. We cant' do anything about it, but THAT doesn't matter, even a little, because the bass can't 'feel' the worm until it strikes it. The 'texture' of the worm is a non issue, as it has NOTHING to do with getting the bass to strike in the first place. (makes the fish 'hold' the bait, but we ought to be good enough at this to 'feel' a fish).
What REALLY matters with a soft plastic bait is it's 'action' in the water. How it 'moves' is the first thing that 'matters' for our purposes. Can we make a fly that 'moves' like a worm. Of course we can. We have to disregard how the worm 'looks' and understand that it's a matter of the ratio between stiffness and 'give' which causes a plastic worm to move in the water the way it does. Lots of fly tying materials will do this. Bucktail is one of the best, many of the synthetics also will flex and move with water resistance in similar ways to a soft plastic bait. We CAN do this part, and pretty easily.
The hard part is the 'weight' thing. The true 'secret' to success for most soft plastic fishermen is the amazing combination between the soft plastic lure and the WEIGHT that the fisherman uses. This causes all kinds of 'good' things as far as attracting a bass goes. Slows down the bait AND speeds it up, makes it fall with all kinds of built in action, keeps the bait closer to the botom, and lets the fisherman stay more closely in contact with the lure. How much weight, where you place it, and how you 'move' the lure can be combined to give a simple plastic worm dozens of differing and effective 'actions'.
VERY hard to do with a fly. You can add weight to a fly, and it will do something, but if you want it to do something different, you have to tie another fly or add weight ahead of it. And, there are limits to how much weight you can throw with a fly rod.
We can compete when the spinning guys are fishing unweighted worms and the bite is on the fall OR the retrieve. We can compete pretty well when they are splitshotting. A sinking line will let us catch the same fish as the carolina rig guys in waters to around 12 feet deep. But we are out of our element if they are using a 1/8 to 1/4 ounce or heavier slip sinker texas rigged to get a quick vertical fall, hopping the bait, or fishing deep water. A fly just won't fall like that, the line has too much drag, and we can't cast enough weight.
We have to understand the limits of our chosen tackle.
One other thing. Remember that if you want to catch the same fish the guy using soft plastic is catching, you need to 'move' your fly the same way. Many conventional tackle guys work a worm by 'pulling' or 'lifting' it along with the rod. Stripping the line in with your hand won't get the same 'action' from your fly.
As far as 'which' flies goes, I've done really well with bass on in these situations with Clousers tied in worm colors, and with Semi-Seal leeches. Both 'move' like plastics in the water (look nothing like a worm, but that doesn't matter). I tie lots of each with different weights, different weight locations, and differing levels of materials (sparser/fuller ties) to let me get different actions in the water.
No easy answers to this one.
Good Luck!
Buddy
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Re: So...bass flies for the bass that eat plastic worms...
Jeff,
There is a worm fly Scott Sanchez came up with to try to mimick rubber worms. It was in an article in Fly Tyer, I'll try to dig it up once I get home. From what I remember, the fly was pretty simple. He took a rabbit pelt, coated the skin side of it with a thin layer of silicone and once it dried, cut it into zonker strips to use for his work flies.
I have not tried this fly but I thought it was a creative way of mimicking plastic worms.
Regards,
Alberto
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Re: So...bass flies for the bass that eat plastic worms...
I always keep 3-4? worms in my vest and use them with my fly rod for bass whenever the situation dictates. I hook them wacky style and once casted out I very slowly pull in your line as it falls to keep it some what taunt so that you can feel a pick up. If there is no strike on the fall I strip the line in little at a time in a jerky motion. The worm will wiggle each time you jerk the in line being that its hook in the middle. Split shots can be used depending on the depth. I?ve used this method many time for bass and just started using it for steelhead. The typical colors for bass and pink for steelhead. Some of the puritans may frown on this but it works.
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Re: So...bass flies for the bass that eat plastic worms...
Senkos.................shhhhh :)
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Re: So...bass flies for the bass that eat plastic worms...
Got a ton of good info here already....But I'll toss in a couple things that work for me...Creme midjit Scoundrel Worms..(Plastic)...They make em in Purple,Red and Live color...Great for bass and anything else that swims..I fish them with no additional weight and thread them on a long shanked streamer hook, Bout a size 6....and fish them, On a fly rod!!!!!
Longer leaders and allowing them to sink a while before a good tug and allowing for it to drop back down...Hits can be anything from your line slowly sliding off to one side. to down right rod jarring...
also try a HEAVY crayfish pattern...Do not be affraid to put the lead to em...!!!
I tye ALL my crayfish with lead lashed to the sides of the shank and then wraped the length of the hook and finnish by flattening the lead with smooth jawed pliers....really keeps them down there where their souppoed to be...Try tossing them toward the bank..if not ON the bank and working them back to you in a manner that mimic's their natural swimming,Pausing, jittering movements....The bass here are well versed in all tackle tactic's and on public waters see a LOT of pressure...Any Big fish (Beyond 3 Lb. ) are a rarity in this neck O'The woods....
There is one thing I've been meaning to try..and that is making a worm out of that Gummy minnow stuff.....Just gotta get around to buying some of this material...From what I've read...I think it'd be just the ticket if rolled tightly and applied to a hook that way...But this is something I've not yet gotten around to giving a try YET...I will though...I'm alway's tinkering! :D
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Re: So...bass flies for the bass that eat plastic worms...
Robin,
I find your post very interesting as I was thinking of doing that. This is the first I have ever seen it mentioned. I thought I was inventing something no one else had thought of! Guess not. Anyway.....I have some lineman's boots where the black shoelace's have gone to pot. Broken in pieces but good strong stuff in between the breaks. I remember seeing some pic of black leeches and was going to try to duplicate it with a black shoelace. At least now I know I am not crazy.
Actually I guess I can't really say that. I told my Dr. while we were fishing on a stream what my ideas were for building a rod. He said "I think you are crazy". So can truthfull say a doctor has declared I am crazy.
Gemrod
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Re: So...bass flies for the bass that eat plastic worms...
Jim,
Your doctor sounds very intelligent.
:D
Buddy
p.s; Hows the fishing up there????
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Re: So...bass flies for the bass that eat plastic worms...
Buddy,
THAT got me a few chuckles. It is good to laugh once in awhile. Even if it is not a blown away down and out belly laugh....a bit of laughter and chuckles always seems to feel good.
Haven't been fishing. Looking for a home. Spent last three days in NM. Went to a very remote area and hiked down to Navajo Lake. Didn't fish......just surveying. I could see many fish hitting the surface across the lake from me where the Los Pinos enters the lake. Just like up at Vallecito.....however hitting the surface much much more. Also could see some very large carp.
Later
Gemrod
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Re: So...bass flies for the bass that eat plastic worms...
Not sure if it was this forum or another but "Scrunchies" make great worms from what I read. These are the things your daughters, girlfriends, wives and mothers use in their hair to make a pony tail.
These scrunchies come in so many colors and materials you should have no problem finding something that will match the hatch so to speak.
Cut the metal band in half that holds the two ends together and tie them on a hook. This will keep them from unravelling. After is secured to the hook you can then cut that half of the metal band off.
I don't bass fish much but I am going to find some orange scrunchies to "match" the Palolo Worm that hatches around June in the Keys that the Tarpon go nuts over. This is of course assuming I am down there when the hatch occurs. :?
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Re: So...bass flies for the bass that eat plastic worms...
That was a thread by Mike Connor's on another fourm...GOTC if not mistaken...But those were for saltwater use...no clue what the effects would be for fresh water...
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Re: So...bass flies for the bass that eat plastic worms...
Image Google "V-worm" and see what you come up with.
Both sites below have the V-worm!
www.riverbum.com
www.feather-craft.com
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Re: So...bass flies for the bass that eat plastic worms...
well if you want to show them all up, this is what i do. while sight fishing for bass, this is the fly that i have only seen 2 bass turn down so far. tie a chenille worm on a worm hook and add a bit of split shot or a heavy weight at the nose and just slowly bounce it along the bottom in about 3-4 second intervals. it works AMAZINGLY!! a fish will usually just feel like a hang up, so if i feel any resistance i do the sam thing as when you dont feel anything except just pull the rod tip harder so if it is fish it will get hooked.
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Re: So...bass flies for the bass that eat plastic worms...
Quote:
Originally Posted by DDRRedneck500
well if you want to show them all up, this is what i do. while sight fishing for bass, this is the fly that i have only seen 2 bass turn down so far. tie a chenille worm on a worm hook and add a bit of split shot or a heavy weight at the nose and just slowly bounce it along the bottom in about 3-4 second intervals. it works AMAZINGLY!! a fish will usually just feel like a hang up, so if i feel any resistance i do the sam thing as when you dont feel anything except just pull the rod tip harder so if it is fish it will get hooked.
I've tried this but the chenille always falls apart after a couple of casts. I've tried a couple of different types of chenille with no luck, what are you using?
Around here there is pretty much nothing but bass so when they are taking plastic worms I put a plastic worm on a hook and cast that puppy out there. I use a ten wt. so it's easy to cast. The thing that sucks is that the bass in Jersey average only about 2-3 lbs. with an occational 5-6 pounder. I'll kill for a 8-10 ponder!
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Re: So...bass flies for the bass that eat plastic worms...
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyvito
Quote:
Originally Posted by DDRRedneck500
well if you want to show them all up, this is what i do. while sight fishing for bass, this is the fly that i have only seen 2 bass turn down so far. tie a chenille worm on a worm hook and add a bit of split shot or a heavy weight at the nose and just slowly bounce it along the bottom in about 3-4 second intervals. it works AMAZINGLY!! a fish will usually just feel like a hang up, so if i feel any resistance i do the sam thing as when you dont feel anything except just pull the rod tip harder so if it is fish it will get hooked.
I've tried this but the chenille always falls apart after a couple of casts. I've tried a couple of different types of chenille with no luck, what are you using?
Around here there is pretty much nothing but bass so when they are taking plastic worms I put a plastic worm on a hook and cast that puppy out there. I use a ten wt. so it's easy to cast. The thing that sucks is that the bass in Jersey average only about 2-3 lbs. with an occational 5-6 pounder. I'll kill for a 8-10 ponder!
well the way i make chenille worms, is i i braid the chenille together like a leader, and super glue the head and it holds up very nicely. its probably one of the most durable flies i have. and i make the in the 3-8 inches range.
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Re: So...bass flies for the bass that eat plastic worms...
DDRRedneck500,
Any pics of your Chenille worm?
What Colors do you use?
Thanks EPuffer
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Re: So...bass flies for the bass that eat plastic worms...
Singe the ends with heat?
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Re: So...bass flies for the bass that eat plastic worms...
Quote:
Originally Posted by DDRRedneck500
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyvito
Quote:
Originally Posted by DDRRedneck500
well if you want to show them all up, this is what i do. while sight fishing for bass, this is the fly that i have only seen 2 bass turn down so far. tie a chenille worm on a worm hook and add a bit of split shot or a heavy weight at the nose and just slowly bounce it along the bottom in about 3-4 second intervals. it works AMAZINGLY!! a fish will usually just feel like a hang up, so if i feel any resistance i do the sam thing as when you dont feel anything except just pull the rod tip harder so if it is fish it will get hooked.
I've tried this but the chenille always falls apart after a couple of casts. I've tried a couple of different types of chenille with no luck, what are you using?
Around here there is pretty much nothing but bass so when they are taking plastic worms I put a plastic worm on a hook and cast that puppy out there. I use a ten wt. so it's easy to cast. The thing that sucks is that the bass in Jersey average only about 2-3 lbs. with an occational 5-6 pounder. I'll kill for a 8-10 ponder!
well the way i make chenille worms, is i i braid the chenille together like a leader, and super glue the head and it holds up very nicely. its probably one of the most durable flies i have. and i make the in the 3-8 inches range.
I'm gonna give it a try, thanks. I hope that you decide to post a pic.
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Re: So...bass flies for the bass that eat plastic worms...
I have a bunch of bunny leeches I am going to try this weekend in one of Dick Stewarts books he makes the comment of of "is this fly fishings answer to the plastic worm"
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Re: So...bass flies for the bass that eat plastic worms...
Jeff,
After reading many of the replies here..and some are quite inventive in their fly styles, maybe you might try this.
Use the simple Zonker strips (thinking durability here) and slice the wide ones into narrower strips, maybe 1/8" wide and 3"-4"or 5" long. Trim some of the rabbit hair off of the entire strip so it's approx. 1/4" long.
Tie this to your hook, maybe even incorporating that idea of a bit of foam in the tail to get it to rise a little..?? Try it both ways. Then add a small head of epoxy to get her down gently. I'd definitely tie in a nylon weed guard to help you in the weeds, where you'd be fishing mostly.
I've never done this as I fish mostly topside for bass but thought it might be an idea...and make for one durable fly.
Some good ideas presented here. I like that braided chenille concept too.
Give them all a try. Makes for a fun tying time...and you never know.
Jeremy.
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Re: So...bass flies for the bass that eat plastic worms...
You might want to try this - Burks V Worm...here's one I tied...
http://static.zooomr.com/images/3772...c318.jpg?r=360
pattern found at: http://www.flytyingforum.com/index.p...how&showid=126
hope this helps,
George
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Re: So...bass flies for the bass that eat plastic worms...
You can cut up a chamois cloth to make worms.
A cheap, though not real durable material, is b rubber bands.
You can cut small "v's" in the edge to give it some shape and produce some sound.
Rick
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Re: So...bass flies for the bass that eat plastic worms...
An inexpensive source of chamois..the real stuff tends to be a little spendy...can be found in auto sections of stores ..also Dollar stores...it is used to cover sponges
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Re: So...bass flies for the bass that eat plastic worms...
i would post a pic of it, but i dont have a halfway decent digital camera. i could post a pic from my cell phone but it wont be good quality