http://flytyingnewandold.blogspot.co...ng-caddis.html
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This is very similar to what Norm Norlander uses with the Nor-vise. In fact you can use all of Norm's procedures on a rotary vise, just not as fast.
Good site with lots of neat flies. Thanks for posting.
iaflyfisher
Wrapping the hackle and thread like this dates back at least 400 years. It is how the hackle is wound on the Stewart Black Spider.
Cheers,
C.
That was pretty cool.
I will be giving that a goQuote:
Originally Posted by Steven
Pretty cool, don't have rotary but by hand should work okay too. LOL
Fatman
I couldn't get it to play. Anyone else have that problem? Nevermind-got it.
I do that with quite a few of my flies... the thread gives the hackle a bit of strength and makes the fly last longer against fish teeth this way.
Anyone that has not seen this needs to watch Norm Norlander demonstrating at a show...
Nice but personally it seems completely unnecessary. Leave wire (or thread) at tail. Tie in hackle at head and wrap back to wire. Tie off with wire and wrap wire up to eye area. Serves the same purpose, is easier, is faster, makes the hackle just as secure, and actually looks better than the fly in the video which has the thread as the body, or so it appears.
Not to hijack this thread because one purpose stated for this type of technique is the protection of the hackle. So I have 2 questions to ask, 1) 'How many of your flies(the ones you've personally tied, not bought) have hackle that's come apart due to the teeth of a trout?' 2) 'If you've caught some trout and the fly's hackle has came apart, are you really disappointed in that fly?'
Personally, my answer to #1 after more than 40 years of fly fishing is, I can count the number of flies where the hackle has come apart on 1 hand. And #2, no I'm far from disappointed. In fact, I'm ecstatic and happy to have sacrificed a fly to the fishing gods. I'm sure that I have more than enough of any pattern, at any given time, to replace that abused and torn fly.
Allan
I have played around with twisting hackles with the body material, but I generally don't like the looks of it.
To answer Allan's questions:
1. Quite a few, but primarily on a certain pattern, the Seal Bugger. I think reinforcing the hackle of that fly with wire binds down too many body fibers.
2. No, and I often pull off the remains of the hackle and keep fishing the fly.
I intend to try some of the ideas put forth in this thread because I like the procedure and want to see what the results look like. Several years ago I remember reading about "reverse tying" and now I do not remember who submitted it or where I read it, but, it might have been A.K. Best but I am not sure. I know I tried it and have used "reverse tying" ever since. I think it is easier to palmer hackle and I like the looks of the fly better. For example, when you tie a bugger, tie in the chenille and hackle up front behind the hook eye and then run your thread bobbin back to the tail tie-in point and leave it there. Wrap the chenille to the back, tie off with the thread and cut off the excess and then palmer the hackle to the tail tie-in point and tie off with your thread and cut off the excess. Then you can work your thread back through the body to the hook eye and create your head and whip finish. Doing it this way eliminates the bulk behind the hook eye and, in my opinion, makes the hackle lie back more naturally and looks better. Working the thread bobbin back and forth as you bring the thread back to the hook eye creates the rib that makes the hackle more durable and the small diameter of the tying thread does not trap any hackles. I try to always use thread as close to the body color as I can get and you never see the thread in the finished fly. Doing it this way also eliminates "counter wrapping" because the hackle leans back as you palmer it to the back and when you bring the thread to the front it will be wrapping over the hackle just like "counter wrapping" except you do not have to change the wrapping direction. I love "tying in reverse"!
If it was on this board, it was likely Hans WeilenmannQuote:
Originally Posted by WarrenP
If memory serves, it was as Steven wrote, Hans.
Speaking of whom, does he still venture onto this site?
Allan
Yeah, I think Hans was advocating it for Catskills to make small heads. I don't use the method for dries but do for wets.
I love the technique and will for sure use it.
I don't think I like how he tied the fly though. If he started at the back of the fly (hooks bend) and worked forward, it wouldn't look that heavy with thread and I would have finished the fly with half hitches.
After AllanB posted about how the Stewart Black Spider is tied I looked it up and came across one of my favorite fly tiers Davie McPhail and these two flies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uV7k3epJfJY
Again I love the technique and have used it for peacock hurl but never thought to use it for hackle.
Great post and rebuttals.
Erie Bell,
The reason I prefer to tie the hackle at the head and wind it toward the tail is because you get a nice tapered shape to the hackle. Also, if you tie the hackle in at the tail and, as you wind it forward, it happens to break, you're SOL. You now have to undo the body, tie in another hackle, redo the body and then wind the hackle(again). Plus it's difficult to get the nice tapered body. Just sayin.
Allan