too big to be a cat...
too small for coyote
Think is fox?
Anyone?
http://troutadventures.tripod.com/si.../skullq1sz.jpg
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too big to be a cat...
too small for coyote
Think is fox?
Anyone?
http://troutadventures.tripod.com/si.../skullq1sz.jpg
The over-all appearance is much too brachycephalic to be a fox, as well as the fact that it is missing the occipital crest, common to both foxes and canines. The dentition is more consistent with an omnivorous diet.
All I have to go on here is a right-side lateral view, partly obstructed by unknown debris, but I will take a stab at it. We can rule out foxes and dogs for the previously mentioned reasons. There is a well pronouced diastema in the dentition, consistent with an herbivore, or omnivorous diet. The skull is, again, too bracycephalic to be from an opossum, weasel, mink or skunk. Lack of a pronouced Interparietal bone would rule out any of the Lagamorphs (rabbits, hares and pikas). The presence of 2 occipital condyles on the foramen magnum indicate that we are definitly dealing with some species of mammal, as birds and reptiles only have 1.
The lack of an apparent saggital crest would seem to indicate a young animal. Combined with the other evidence, here is the 'smoking gun'. A close examination of the visible teeth show a selenodont ridge pattern, coupled with a smooth ramus and pronouced premaxillas. The only mammal that posseses all these attributes, indigenous to N. America, is Procyon lotor.....the Racoon. It appears to be a young female specimen.
Semper Fi!
:shock: Whoa!! Pretty kewl, even this early in the morning!! Great explaination! I didn't know any of that, but still would have guessed racoon just from the hair and teeth.
Yeah, I totally new it was a racoon too. :oops: Was that even english. WOW!! That was like watching an entire epsiode of animal CSI! Incredible.
I was with Spinner when he spied the sucker, and it's in a bag (temporarily anyway) and will be buried in the flower garden until all the rest of the skin and meat is gone, should be only 30-60 days. then it on the shelves with the other skulls.
Zoanr
By the way, I'm new here, first post. How is everyone??? Isn't it a great day?
Hey man, welcome to the site. I'm sure you've heard plenty about it. You will not be let down. We'll be excited to learn from ya! 8)Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoanr
I am sorry if I got too technical. It was actually a very enjoyable intellectual exercise and I guess I became lost in the moment. My Bachelors Degree was in Zoology. My Masters is in Biology. My Doctorate is in Naturopathy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigmaster
I'll try to translate. Bracycephalic means the head is too short front-to-back to be from a fox. They have a much slimmer profile. The occipital crest is a ridge that runs along the back of the skull, and is an anchor for strong neck muscles, mostly from animals that hold thier heads in an upward posititon relative to the body stance, such as dogs and foxes. Dentition is the type of teeth an animal has. In this case, the skull has well developed molars designed for crushing and pulverizing (chewing), as well as fairly efficient front incisor teeth, which are more like steak knives, for cutting tissue. Carnivores, as a rule, do very little chewing, and have sharper, more pointed molars. They are more in the 'bite-and-swallow' catagory. Since this skull has both kinds of teeth, its owner must've eaten both vegetables (trash) and meat. This rules out pure carnivores, and pure herbivores.
A diastema is a separation between the set of incisors and the rear teeth. This is a good indicator of an omnivore, or an animal that eats both meat and vegetables, fruit, etc.... It doesn't have enough teeth to be an opossum (they have 12-14 per side...this has 7), and again, the skull is too short from front-to-back. An Interparietal bone is a ridge along the top center of a skull and is peculiar to rabbits, hares and pikas. They have a very specialized sinus cavity, and this bone is an extra support for it. The foramen magnum is the large opening at the back of the skull where the spinal column exits into the vertabrae. The occipital condyles are smooth rounded knobs on either side of the foramen magnum where the first vertabra is attached to the skull. Mammals have one on each side. Birds and reptiles only have one.
A saggital crest is a ridge that runs along the top of the skull to provide strength and stiffness. It is not present in very young animals and develops in adolecence. It is significant because it tells us that many features of this specimen may not be fully developed, and can lead to mis-identification if allowances are not made.
A seledont ridge pattern is a crown pattern on the teeth made up of crescent half-moon type ridges. You can just make it out on the rear molars. This is common only to raccoons, badgers and wolverines. The ramus is the main horizontal part of the lower jaw. In this case, it has a smooth surface, as opposed to being rough-textured. Wolverines have a rough textured ramus. Badgers and raccoons have a smooth ramus. The premaxillas is the front part of the jaw. A badger has a straight premaxillus with no drop or hook (straight-faced). A raccoon has a pronounced 'hook'. This skull has a well defined 'hooked' premaxillas, therefore, it can only be a raccoon.
Incidentaly, for a bit of trivia, the proper name for the common raccoon, Procyon lotor comes from 2 Greek words: Procyon-meaning "before dogs", and lotor-meaning "washer" (from lave-"I wash"). Raccoons are believed to be ancestors of dogs, and they have a habit of washing thier food before eating it, if possible.
Glad I could help.
Semper Fi!
Gigmaster ,
That was the best ,bar none, explaination that I have seen on this site(and there are a lot of sharp folkes that visit here too!!). 8)
Wow.
Perch
If you boil the skull for a few hours that might work too. Cool souveneer.
P.
If you want to preserve the skull, here is the accepted process that museums use.Quote:
Originally Posted by perch
1. First, determine if the skull is decayed. If it is, you'll want to work with it OUTSIDE, as the smell will be disagreeable to many. Remove as much tissue (carefully) as possible and freeze the skull if it is not to be prepared immedeatly.
2. The initial step in cleaning a skull is boiling. The hair and hide should be removed. They contain oils that permeate the bone when boiled and the result is a yellow, greasy skull. If the skull cannot be cleaned soon after the animal's death, freeze it. Rotting skulls are no fun to clean and may cause a revolt in the household. If the skull is malodorous from decay, it will be repugnant during boiling. In this situation, boil it on a camp stove outside, or in the garage, in a castaway pot.
3. Immerse the skull in water and let simmer. A thawed wolf or bear skull requires 2.0 to 3.0 hours of simmering. Smaller skulls, such as marten, fox or lynx, take about 40 to 60 minutes. Skulls from old age animals often require longer. Frozen skulls will take about 15 to 30 minutes longer. The skull is ready to be cleaned when the muscle pulls off easily. Do not boil the skull too long it can crack the teeth and soften the bone. It is best to remove the meat and brain tissue while they are still quite warm. Once cooled and dry, thorough removal of tissue is more difficult. Remove any loose teeth and save them for re-insertion later.
4. Use a small knife (a scalpel works great if you have one) to gently scrape away stubborn tissue, but take care not to cut or mar the bone. Nerve and connective tissue can be teased out of holes and crevices with a wire or large tweezers. The tough part is cleaning inside the cranium (brain case). This is done through the foramen. Curved hemostats are worth thier weight in gold for smaller skulls, as they can fit right through the foramen and gently pluck tissue loose. A small spoon is handy for scooping out remaining brain matter. Flush the skull with water several times during this process to remove loose tissue.
5. There are very delicate scroll-like bones in the nasal cavities. If you wish to preserve them, be very gentle. Flushing water through the nasal cavities will remove much of the tissue.
6.When you have the skull as clean as you can get it, soak it in an enzyme-bleach powder such as Biz, at a concentration of 3/4 of a cup of detergeant to 1 gallon of water. DO NOT USE CHLOROX OR CHLORINE BLEACH! It is very harsh on the bones, and your safety. The fumes are toxic and can react with all kinds of material to produce deadly gas. It also does not have the required enzyme action. Large skulls (Bison, Deer, etc..) should soak for 3 days. Smaller skulls should soak at least 36 hours.
7. Use a stiff-bristled brush, scalpel and small knife for final cleaning. Remove all the last stubborn tissue from the skull. Dry, wipe and polish the skull with a soft absorbant cloth (old T-shirts are the best for this). Using a small amount of Elmers (or similar white glue), re-insert the loose teeth back into thier sockets. Allow the glue to set for a few hours before doing anything major to the skull, such as mounting, etc...
Now, you have a museum-quality skull for display, painting, mounting or anything else you may wish to use it for. It will last indefinitly with periodic care. Entire skeletons can be preserved the same way.
Semper Fi!
If you want to preserve your MARRIAGE, you'll boil skulls outside. Learned the hard way boiling deer skulls, and they weren't even rotten!...TIMQuote:
If you want to preserve the skull, here is the accepted process that museums use.
1. First, determine if the skull is decayed. If it is, you'll want to work with it OUTSIDE
PS Gigmaster: I have a BSc in Zoology. Your fabulous explanation was a trip down memory lane - Ah mammalogy labs...boxes of skulls and skins...pits of dermestid beetles...the everpresent scents of mould and decay...ah the good old days!
It's still like that around here......I have a lab in the back room and do volunteer work with the Animal Rescue unit. I've always got a few wild animals around here waiting to be re-located or receive medical attention. Here's a great tidbit for you: Did you know that the best thing for fixing a turtles damaged shell or beak is plain old 5 min epoxy? They leave here as good (or better) than new.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitefish
Semper Fi!
it definitely reminded me that knowing the terms and knowing the definition of the terms are two different things. I guess I have a long way to go before I can use those terms without having a reference in front of me.
Personally, I was still looking for a carnassial apparatus in the dentition to rule out cats....a raccoon would definitely have thrown me for a loop. lol ( by the way, we don't have 'coons here, so it's not something I would be greatly familiar with so I'm using that for an excuse)
I hate to admit I understood the explanation.
Does that make me a geek?
You make "geek" sound like a bad thing :shock:
Aren't we all ffing geeks?!...TIM
If 'Geek' means educated, then I would take it as a compliment. I spent a lot of money and time on my education. I'd like to think it wasn't wasted (hint: knowledge is never 'wasted').
It could get even worse. I hate to admit it, but I minored in Physics........in what was then known as Quantum Theory, now taught as Quantum Mechanics.
I predict that will be the next big 'breakthrough' in computer technology. Computers with Quantum-based memories. You can have a portable computer the size of a small cell phone, with the RAM and processing power of several Crays.......awesome. Probably within 10 years or so.
Semper Fi!
Gig - masters and doctorate ...... my hats off to you (and toss in physics yet too .....)
I love learning .... but when hit the classroom, I get tired - quick.
interesting stuff though ....
I do OK until get into the properties of time, and some of the Einstienian theories regarding it. It gives me a headache! I still study it on my own, sort of as a hobby, but a little goes a loooong way! I am also an amatuer astronomer.
Here is a picture of the moon I took Sunday night. The large sea in the upper right-center is the Sea Of Tranquility, where the first landing was in 1969. This is a digital image taken with my Nikon D70 DSLR camera through my Meade 10" LX-6 telescope, with an f/6.3 Schmidt-Cassegrain Objective lens. The telescope is also connected to my computer for both location and imaging.
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...oon15Apr05.jpg
Semper Fi!
We used to have a 16" reflector in the back yard! ;)
well, I understood all the concepts in class (of alg, trig, physics, etc) - came time to put to use ...... :? Still twigs me once in a while.
Did you use a polarized filter or just what the telescope provided via the lens'
Have been trying to get a decent pic for a while with the Z740, but it seems that it doesn't have a low enough f-stop ............ might have to buck-shee something
darrell,
I don't think the word is 'GEEK', it's 'NERD'Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Bad Wulff
It used to be Nerds were made fun of, but now everyone wishes they were a Nerd.
Doug :D
I don't have a filter for the lens, but that's a good idea. I'll get on EBay and find one. I bought the telescope and lenses on EBay, as well as the camera.Quote:
Originally Posted by darrell