finding a good guide

there is a thread going about rude guides which i am following, and it occurred to me to ask for some advice in choosing a guide. Best Fishing Buddy and i came to the sport late in life, and to make up for our inexperience, we usually hire a guide to introduce us to new waters. it pays off big time because we learn a lot about local conditions and habits, as well as catch more fish than usual.
we've been pleased with our guides on the whole, and the few times the experience has been less than fulfilling, it was because we didn't follow our guidelines for choosing:
1) word of mouth cannot be beat, if you trust the mouth
2) if there's a web site, check out what kinds of fishing are offered. we almost always go with guides who emphasize fly fishing on their site.

our less wonderful experiences have come from guides booked at short notice through resorts.

do you all have some other tips for getting good guides in areas you don't know? someone said they trusted the big O when they traveled.

As a guide on the Yellowstone and Madison rivers in Montana I will give you a few tips. Others will give valuable advice as well, I know I will leave a good bit out.

If you are going to be fishing local water ask at the fly shop that you frequent for a reference. As you mentioned, ask someone you know and trust who they went with and if they would go with that guide again.

Look at some web sites. The web site can give you a clue as to the guide's experience (I will go over this shortly), their basic fly fishing philosophy and the waters they guide on. However, I know some great guides that have lousy web sites ( and many who do not have one at all) and some less than great guides with a good looking web site.

Try to talk to the actual guide if at all possible. Many places in Montana have a core group of guides and you may not have any idea who you will be fishing with until the big day comes. This is just how things are run here. Many shops will have a short bio on their main guides, ask who you will be fishing with and check out their bio. Having said that, the vast majority of trips in Montana are arranged with the guide and client never speaking until the day they fish together.

A guide with many years experience often is a good indicator that you will be with a great guide who is patient, knowlegable and will go over the top for you. However, there are many guides who have been doing this for so long that they just do not care any more. The bottom line is, many years experience most likely is a good thing, however, there are many guides just getting started that will work their butts off for you. This is an extremely competitive business, so most guides and just about every outfitter will do their best for you.

If you are going on that dream trip then put on some coffee and sit down at the computer and do some research. Make some calls to the outfitters and lodges and go to boards like this and ask some questions.

The bottom line is that the vast majority of the guides I know love what they do and work very hard for their fishermen. Those that do not get weeded out very quickly. If you have a bad experience with a guide that is truly at fault then by all means talk to their boss. If they are self employed then talk to everyone you know about the bad experience.

One more thing. When you go on a guided trip make sure that you have realistic expectations about the water, the fishing and what a guide can and can not do. Most of all, know what your skill level is and do not expect miracles. Keep an open mind when the guide suggests a different fly, or a tweak to your cast. Go into the trip expecting to learn. That way, even if the fishing is no good you will still come out with a valuable day on the water.

BTW, I am also from Pa. For many years Penns was my home stream and I am looking forward to fishing there over Christmas.

CaseyP,
It sounds like you want to learn from a Guided trip, so when you talk to a Fly Shop, request their best teaching Guide or most popular Guide.
Doug

sure would be nice if you and a guide could sign a formal contract before the start of a trip, that if the guide acted like the one in the other post his money supply is cut off from the sport he is guiding.

I have never, ever had a problem with an Orvis-endorsed guide, outfitter, or lodge.

I realize there are probably thousands of great guides, outfitters and lodges that don't bother to be endorsed for one reason or another, but I've found it a very quick way to narrow the field.

My understanding from a proprietor of a Lodge that was at one time Orvis Endorsed is that there was some sort of fee to Orvis for that. But there were also some very good benefits that made the program worthwhile. The lodge did have to meet Orvis' criteria so it was much more involved than pay a fee and get an endorsement. That lodge decided not to continue participating in the program for their own reasons and has remained very successful. So such an endorsement can indicate that lodge or guide meets certain standards as set forth by the endorser. But if an outfitter or guide is not endorsed, that should not be construed as negative.

I use word of mouth recommendations to choose guides, outfitters, or lodges. I have yet to have a bad experience. Maybe the fishing was not up to par for a location, but that was not within the control of the guides and they did their best.

I have also used word of mouth --either from my friends or fly shops--- and I tend to like guides referred by shops that don't have a stable of guides that are in house so to speak.

On a big multiday trip, I have asked for references and call and checked out the reference.

I have fished with guides that didn't know as much as I did about fishing but they tried hard and all I really need is a ride in the drift boat of directions as to where to fish -- not how to fish.

There is no better way than your own legwork. Ask, Ask, Ask. If you call a flyshop make sure to call a few more and ask them also. If 2 or more shops recommend the same guide, they are probably a good bet. Check references. Call the guide. Make sure you know exactly what you are getting. Are they licensed properly for the state or provence you will be fishing? How long have they been fishing that stream or lake? Will you need help with casting, line control, reading water, or just fly selection and general spot? Will the guide only be a taxi for the day? Will you be in a boat, float tube, wading? Who will drive? Will you be moving, walking, floating all day or fishing only 1 or 2 spots? How long will the day be? Will the guide fish also? Does he teach or just tell you where to cast? What do you want out of the trip and can he give you that? The more you ask, the more the guide will reveal about himself. Read his website. Just be sure not to ask questions he has already answered on his site and if he is patient on the phone, he will be on the water. If he gets short you may be getting a guide that won't be plesent on the water.


Choosing a guide is only half the battle. You probably already know how to act when you are being guided but this article may help someone else reading the post.

http://www.flyguysoutfitting.com/guidedexperience.html