Printable View
May be a stupid question but why do you think swinging wets downstream works? A fly moving across the creek "swinging" from our fly lines seems like it would be a lot of unnatural movement not to mention completely the opposite direction of a drag free drift.
Is it just the movement that entices a trout to take?
curious on your thoughts. I want to get into wet fly fishing this spring and just trying to understand it more
great question, I'll be interested in the replies. Nymphs do swim up from the bottom and they will get swept in the current. Google Syl Nemes.... Its a fun way to fish, the strikes are thunderous, prob due to the tight line when fishing this method.....
I've just been reading the Nemes book also, and he says it's because the fish chase the fly rather than just letting it float into their mouth.
I'm a little confused by the question. A fly that is drowned, crippled, or spent and is drifting downstream is moving naturally. Generally, a fly is swung downstream in moderately fast, somewhat broken water. A trout, therefore, doesn't have time to be selective, which is why impressionist fly patterns work. Also, even if there is a little under-the-surface drag, there is no wake as there is when there is surface drag. Many angles believe that it's the wake on the surface that turns trout off. Randy
This is my "take" on your question and it is not THE answer but one of many answers. When I fish wets, I cast them upstream and mend the fly line several times so the wet fly will be sinking as it drifts down stream which would represent a dislodged nymph that is caught up in the current. Once the wet fly reaches the end of the drift and your fly line starts to straighten out, it will cause your wet fly to rise which would represent a nymph coming up from the bottom. Both actions will trigger a strike with a lot of the strikes coming towards the end of the drift as the wet fly is coming up.
Just my thoughts and nothing more....
A "brace" of flies is more effective than a single fly and multiples flies tied on droppers are more effective than the same flies tied in-line. A the end of the swing, the rod is raise and the brace of flies on droppers are danced on the surface to induce takes.
The key to me is the term "dead" drift which means the fly is inanimate. Something that does not move can be food or not food.
Movement indicates life and my belief is that the trout interprets the movement as somthing that is living and things that are living indicate things that are food. So the movement attracts the fish's attention. A brace of flies that are moving together, but independently on droppers is more realistic than things that are tied together and move in exactly in line.
The dancing fly(ies) on the surface imitates struggling insects on the water and this indicates something that is vulnerable.
Thanks for the replies, I think I am getting a better understanding. Just to clarify my biggest confusion is the fact that flies casted across and down will be swung on a taunt line. This will move the fly across the creek from the bank and finish the swing straight down stream from you. While naturals do rise up from the bottom I don't think any of them swim across the creek in this manner.
Warren this presentation makes much more sense to me vs swinging flies.Quote:
Originally Posted by WarrenP
You've pinpointed the reason that an upstream, dead-drift presentation of wets is often more productive than a downstream swing. Even fishing downstream, it's often more productive to use frequent mends to keep the fly going more or less straigt downstream.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1hook
That said, when the swing does work, it's got a couple of things going for. Some nymphs do swim across the stream. Stoneflies emerge on the banks, and they have to get there somehow. I find a hard swing to be the best method to take a lot of fish during a hatch of little brown stones, for example. Iso's are strong swimmers (and often emerge on the bank). A swing works there, too. And as mentioned above, sometimes the trigger is vertical motion, and this is easier to achieve casting downstream. Sometimes the fish a willing to ignore the sideways motion, (especially when there are emerging caddisflies) and sometimes you can minimize that by making fairly long casts more straight down than across and down (i.e. a 30 degree angle to current, rather than a 45.)
Swinging on a taught line also keeps the fly near the surface, and if you're fishing more than one fly, it's possible to keep the top dropper out of the water. There are times when this seems to be the only thing that works.
Wets can be fished 360 degrees around you; experiment to see which works best under any given circumstance.
IMHO the key to swinging wet's down stream is fairly constant mending to minimize that cross current drag. That's worked for me but I really believe Warren gave the best answer - upstream presentation. Google Oliver Edwards, I've seen a couple of his "Essential Skills" videos on utube.
Cliff
The way that I look at it, if something works, why it is working is of secondary importance. After getting frustrated with trout hitting a bright orange indicator on the surface, I tied up some big, bright orange foam beetle flies. I don't know why I caught trout on the unnatural bright orange beetle flies, but they work very well. I don't think much about why the trout try to eat something that looks completely unnatural. Same thing with wet flies.
Warren is spot-on. :)
Warren is presenting the flies no drag then using the Liesenring lift. Great way to catch fish if done well. Swinging wets across current usually works on stocked fish unless the swing is done with some upstream mends to slow the drift. Just how it seems to work for me.
When considering the nymphs living in a stretch of river it is important to know that not all nymphs are the same. Just concerning mayfly's they can be subdivided into the following
Clingers - position themselfs on rocks or organic matter and feed on organic matter or passing food from that position. they may move to a new location once the food they are clinging to is gone
Burrowers - dig a hole in the substate of the stream bottom and feed in that position
swimmers - swim around and feed in the current. these nymphs do not only move when molting but all the time.
I just attended a presentation by author Ann Miller and she had an amazing amount of info about the life cycle of mayfly's and other aquatic bugs that most fly fisherman don't know. It really enlightened me to the advantages of knowing what bugs live in the particular stretch of river your fishing. this could be a totally different food source for the local fish by moving a hundred yards up and down the stream.
-Jeff
Warren has described a great method for working wets but it is not 'swinging wets'.
Check this site out. great info on wet fly fishing. I talked to this guy at a show and what to do a trip with him to learn the technique.
http://www.wetflywaterguides.com/index.html
What warren is doing is the classic English/scottish way of fishing wets as has been done for hundreds of years. I just fimished a digital copy of a book by C.M. Tod written in 1898 about wet fly fishing his "normal" method was just as warren discribed and very effective. the swing of wet fies was just being started about this time as anglers were discovering that the sedge(caddis) could actually swim against a current to hatch. This is the primary reason for swing wets down and across. Most mayfly nymphs will swim to the surface, other than Isonychia and Baetis nymph none are actaully strong swimmers. I will swing wets and sfot hackles during a caddis hatch, just a soon as i start to see the flashy rises from trout chasing emerging caddis to the surface I will put on the proper style/size to closely mtach the caddis pupa and swing them to the spots were the fish are feeding. Also when the Eperous mayflies ( quill gordons/ pale evening duns) hatch they actually emerge from the nymphal shuck on the stream bottom and float to the surface with wings extended over their back, they look just like the winged wets many of us throw. about 3 years ago started to fish this way again after almost 15 or 18 years of not doing so and for the life of me I can't figure out why i ever stopped. Like everything else in this sport it has it's time and place and should not be used all the time jst as dry flies, nymphs or streamers shouln't.
steve
PS Gene the Liesenring lift is actually done when you cast up stream to a known fish and mend until the fly is with in sight of the trout then lift the rod ever so gently to cause the fly to rise up in front of the fish. this is a deadly method for emerging maylfies in the early season.
I'll go back and read the book again. But basically Warren is doing what James Liesenring described many years ago. Yes a deadly technique done if a fish is sighted or not. All you need are insects and working fish.
Thanks for the replies. I'm anxious for spring to start experimenting. Just grabbed syl nemes book the soft hackle addict from the library last night.
"Why does Swinging wets work?"
Because, trout really are not very smart.
BigA hit it on the head.
My best fishing friend, who is a superb angler, showed me his technique of fishing these types of flies a number of years ago. I'm sure it originated with the extensive Atlantic salmon and steelhead fishing he has done over many years. Using a weight forward floating line, he casts a single fly across or slightly downstream, and imparts a bit of up and down "bobbing" motion to it with his rod tip as it floats along down the river on a tight line, until it is directly below him. Then he either gives the fly a few short tugs, or does several hand twist retrieves, before lifting the fly and recasting.
While that part of his technique is not particularly unique, the fly sizes that he uses are not the norm. He'll often be on the Yellowstone River using a size #6 or perhaps a #8 bead head fly, hooking and landing some impressive sized trout, including a 28" brown a couple years ago.
I firmly believe most strikes when fishing wets upstream are missed by most fly fishers... The ratio of known hits and hookups is high enough with swinging flies to maintain interest but surely not the most effective way to catch fish.
My son, while quite young, and I had many days of fishing for grayling where we played with the presentation. The fish are so aggressive it makes little difference how they are fished the strikes will come. Sensing them becomes the difference.
Using flies like Gummie stonefly nymphs works better because they hold the flies longer, increasing the chance of being hooked.
Using indicators increases hookups because fewer takes are missed.
Learning to control the fly, keeping a reasonably tight line, while fishing under conditions where takes are hard to feel will help a great deal also.
art
"He'll often be on the Yellowstone River using a size #6 or perhaps a #8 bead head fly, hooking and landing some impressive sized trout, including a 28" brown a couple years ago."
John,
I am interested in knowing more about the flies your friend uses. Are they just a softhackle fly tied much larger? Do they have a tail? Instead of calling them a softhackle fly, would it be more accurate to call them "flymphs"? Any information you can provide would be appreciated. Thank you....
I believe that the technique, fished in the right type of water, may be more important than the specific fly that is used.
It seems to be best when fished in a moderate current flow where the water is approx. 1 to 4 feet deep. It is even better when the bottom has rocks, big and or small, on the bottom.
He often fishes a variant Prince Nymph, with dark brown dyed partridge, but I've seen when a large fly with just a medium olive dubbed body and a partridge hackle worked just as well.
I guess you can call these flies whatever you wish, but I call it fun.:D
John,
Thanks for replying. When I mentioned that maybe they could be called, "flymphs" was more on how they were tied. A flymph would have a tail, dubbed body and a partridge or hen hackle palmered through the thorax area. I intend to try them here on my local waters and was just trying to tie them the way he did. I will come up with something and give them a try as soon as the generation and weather permit it. I feel with hooks as large as he used would make some great smallmouth bass flies.
Have a great New Year!
I wouldn't get too wrapped up in the argument that insects don't swim across the stream. You look at your wet fly and think it is "an insect." The fish doesn't. The fish sees something that is swimming, and is therefore alive (and is therefore edible) and what is more, is getting away. Drag on a dry fly will kill you. Drag on a wet fly makes it act a lot like a minnow. Trout eat minnows.