HELP!! ...Epoxy Blues

Disaster!
I tied up a bunch of Copper John variants.
(a Fly tribute to Johnny Carson called "Here's Johny") for a swap.
I used a black raffia w/holigraphic strip wingcase and applied a drop of epoxy to the cases a few nights ago. ( my first time working with epoxy.) I mixed half and half according to the directions and it set up perfectly like a dome on each back. The next morning it had run into the fly and dissapeared and left a sticky mess of legs etc.
Besides not hanging them upside down, why would the stuff still be sticky after over 24hrs ( mixed to instuctions)
Any way to fix these or save them?
Any suggestions?
Thanks
Duff

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"These fish we are catching have a disorder...Their heads are too close
to their tails."
~Jimmy Houston~

If you used the epoxy that come in tubes you will have to split the tubes and try again for a better mix.I always use epoxy that comes in two bottles.

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Bill

Hey Duffin Boy,

For the type of epoxying you did, I'd
recommend a quick dry epoxy such as 5 minute
epoxy. Make sure it's up to room temp and
over 70 degrees. Mix thoroughly according
to directions. Mix a small amount first and
allow it to cure on a piece of wood or paper
plate or some such to ensure it is fresh and
works. Then mix a batch for your actual
flytying. It may have exceeded shelf life,
been too cool, or even leached materials
from your fly retarding drying. Warm
regards, Jim

I'm betting on the leeching...but pay attention to everything Jim said. I do a lot of epoxying doing golf clubs and what he says is true... and another little "trick" is to keep a little dab of the epoxy you used so that you can check it and see that it worked...e.g. if the dab hardened and it didn't on the fly assume leeching or whatever....on golf clubs you can't see the epoxy so it's nice to know the batch worked.

One thing I learned, even when using 5 minute epoxy, is to mix it thoroughly! As Jim suggested, only mix a little at a time. You can use any glossy paper for a palate. Squeeze about 1/4 inch of the 'resin' and the same amount of 'hardener' alongside each other. Mix for about a minute or longer. Make sure you mix all of the stuff together. Use very little because you can always add a second layer but it's a pain to get excess off.

Allan

[This message has been edited by tyeflies (edited 28 February 2005).]

I have found through trial and error( heavy on the error) do small batches. I usually do only 6 at a time, put them on my drying wheel, tie another 6 mix up another small batch and continue. Mixing is real important. I like the pump tops for accuracy. it seems to go from to liquid, to perfect, to too thick if I try a larger batch. I built a 6 rpm drying wheel for about $8.00. I use it to dry flies and finish rods.

Here's the answer:

Throw away your epoxy, and get some Loon's Knot Sense. Use that like you would epoxy on the copper johns, then take them outside stuck in foam and expose them to sunlight for 30 seconds. Poof!! Your problems are solved as it dries in less than that time in direct sunlight, is just as clear as epoxy, just as durable, and much cheaper and easier to use!!



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Jude
Small flies work best. Elephants eat peanuts.
www.customflys.com

Just my two cents worth but I have started to use Loon Hard Head in lieu of epoxy in a lot of my applications. This is especially true for the shell backs on my shrimp and crayfish. Takes two coats but then you do not have the problems that you have with epoxy.

Just some food for thought.

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Joe Branham
http://www.branhamssaltwaterflytying.com
flytyer@branhamssaltwaterflytying.com
"The only stupid question is the one for which you do not seek an answer."

I ditto the Loon UV Knot Sense remarks.

It will be hard to use epoxy again for anything but very large applications (I've go to justify keeping my drying wheel!)

What did you mix it in? You could have contaminated your batch from the mixing container. I find a small piece of aluminum foil works well.

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Ron M

Sounds like one of three things: Not enough hardener (Technical term-too low of a cure agent to polymer ratio), bad epoxy, and not throrough enough mixing. Most likely the third since it appears you got no curing at all. Mix the material really well. Time how long it takes. Go back and mix some the material some more for that amount of time. e.g. When you think it's mixed enogh' keep mixing. I use a metal spatula and spread the material out on glass; scrape it up and spread it out again. Keep going with the process until the mixture looks homogeneous. Some material appears to have "waves" in it if not blended throughly. Mix until these "waves" are gone. Then, mix some more. For small batches I use strong toothpicks on PostIt papers using the toothpick like a spatula. Use white paper if you're very fussy about initial results. If not coated, the 5 minute stuff will turn yellow after a while anyway. You won't notice it on a Copper John, but you will if you do large saltwater flies.

If you are using epoxy packaged in attached two syringe configurations with the plungers attached at the top; put a thumb on each plunger and pay attention to the amount of material coming out of each nozzle. Vary pressure to the individual plungers to keep the amounts coming out of both nozzles consistent. When in doubt, too much hardener is better than not enough, but don't try for excess hardener. Cure agent to polymer ratios also effect the cured materials hardness, you may wind up with a material that is too brittle. Not enough hardener can lead to soft material (in addition to the stuff not curing at all) with a tacky surface. If this happens and the material is soft and tacky, but structuraly ok, coat it with head cement. Most commercial mixes on the market let you get away with a lot of mistakes in measuring as long as you have thorough mixing.

Thanks Much, for the replies!
I may have erred in a few areas.
I used foil and a toothpick but maybe I should have been a little heavier on the hardener.
Also I tie in an unheated loft and when I leave for the night, so does most of the heat.
I will take all of your suggestions and try again. I think I can strip the flies down to the copper bodies and build up the thorax again. This time I may try the Loon products or the 5 min epoxy.
In any case I will mix like a chemist and try a few samples first.
Cheers All!
Duff

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"These fish we are catching have a disorder...Their heads are too close
to their tails."
~Jimmy Houston~