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I wonder how many take into account the factor of fly body color when wet v. when in the vise?
Some materials are more prone to a color change when wet, but most do "darken up" when wet. To get the right color when on/in the water, one can assume the color will darken up a bit.
Others take this into account?
Thanks,
Byron
No, just you, lol.
Some of us even take into account the color of the hook and the color of the thread. Some of us even do something about it too!
Allan
Not only do I consider this but use it.
When dry...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...7_edited-1.jpg
When wet
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...8_edited-1.jpg
One of my most important boxes of dubbing is my "Pallet of olive" It starts with a pale primrose and goes through to almost black. If I have something to match I go for the same colour then one step lighter. They are all the same dubbing medium.
Of course there have been debates over the importance of colour before. It is, I suspect, far more important in sub surface flies. One interesting way to think about it is to look at a photo of an out of focus object that is lit from behind. The object appears dark with a fuzzy halo of colour around it. This is how I tend to think of colour appearing in flies that are to be fished above trout.
Cheers,
A.
You are correct...both of you. LOL Yes, materials do darken and change properties when wet.
AND, just for a moment let's say trout see colors. Let's go 1 step further and say they see colors just as we do. Now let's say you're fishing dry flies on a sunny day. What color do the trout see as they look at the fly floating in the glistening water with the sun shining above it?
Oh, here's a 'color' tip that you may or may not have ever tried. Paint the hook shanks white.
Allan
My posting was because I see a lot of folks dubbing or selecting the color of materials they intend for the trout to see. I thought it might be of help to some new tiers.
Sorry for bringing it up.
What I see quite a bit, is for somebody to look at a given pattern and try to imitate it's productivity with different materials of the same color when dry. ignoring the changes of the original productive flies materials when wet. Not all materials of the same dry color show the same when wet.
Allan,
A couple of years ago I started tying one wet fly in a variety of colours. About 6 or 7 different colours. The orange version has been by far the most successful. If trout don't perceive colour why would this be?
Cheers
A.
Fish see color. Not certain whether or not it is as we perceive color though? But color definitely has an impact on fly/bait/lure selection and performance on the water.
Agree. I wonder if the trout agree to? LOL.Quote:
Originally Posted by NJTroutbum
LOL....Not sure. I've talked to them often. But in reality, if one ever talked back I would have to seek help. :)
Years ago, Dr. Loren Hill at the Univ. of Oklahoma, did a lot of study on fish and color. Hummingbird or someone came out with a device for bass fisherman to use on determine what color bait bass could see depending on clarity and depth of water. Resulted in some strange colored crank baits, etc. If I remember correctly fish have rod and cones in their eyes similar to what people have and have similar vision at least in part.
Byron, sorry that some folks seem to get sidetracked... I appreciated your question and it deserves an honest reply.
As far as your original question, yes, I do pay attention to materials regarding how they look in the water versus how they look in the water. I first noticed the problem when I began tying scud patterns for my favorite spring creek. I purchased what looked like just the right color dubbing that I would need and then discovered it would turn almost black when wet. This was for an olive pattern. I then began paying closer attention and even started blending some of my own colors. Most of the dry fly dubbing materials that promote themselves as waterproof, usually maintain their colors. But many of the more coarse dubbings for nymphs and such tend to go a bit darker. The few exceptions I have found have been those from Dave Whitlock and Arizona Dubbing.
I tie a scud with Krystal Flash as a ribbing and I like to demonstrate how the rib adds life to the scud when wet, so I usually put it in my mouth and show off the colors that way when demo tying. (I'm sure someone will go off on the dangers of putting such things in my mouth...:shock: - too bad, I still do it ;) )
On the other hand, I have found that a generic dark-colored mayfly nymph usually works better than any specific color. I let the fish choose.
Kelly.
Subtle contrast seems to be lost quite a bit when things get wet. It might look awesome in the vise, but will your extra details make a difference in the water? I think it pays to step up the contrast a notch or two as well, if it is truly intended to be a critical part of the fly.
In line with my point. As an example, I was asked to see my Flav pattern on the river a week or two ago as I was hooking quite a few fish. The fly was in the hook keeper and had dried out. The angler said, "that's not dark enough". I told him it would be when wet.
I've always followed the 'size, shape, color' mantra as a guide for tying flies in decreasing importance. Does color matter? To me, yes, but less so than size and shape. To the fish? who knows for sure but nature wouldn't have such an array of insect colors if it didn't. I don't throw an orange Stimulator if golden stones are out but I do when the October caddis hatch is on. This past week I couldn't buy a fish if it wasn't tied in cinnamon caddis. Go figure.
Do I account for color change when the fly is wet? Not usually, but it is an interesting question.
I don't. Know I probably should.
We should probably also be considering the color of the fly at the depth it will be fished. Different Colors of light get filtered out as the depth is increases. A fly at 3ft deep could look quite different than if it's just dunked in a glass of water.
Jay,
True. My original post was intended for dry flies, but, obviously, the same is true for sub-surface presentations.
Great point.
Perhaps not the best example, but an example:
Dry:
http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/...ps417bddd0.jpg
Wet:
http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/...ps54208a24.jpg
I'm a big fan of the "halo" effect. Light materials over dark...fuzzy outlines on fly bodies. I think it adds a bit of life to a fly that floats along without much movement. Wet fly, nymph, dry fly, streamer it works for me.