Bass Worms

I've tied a few of these over the past couple of years for Largemouth Bass, but really haven't used them much yet. Blue/Black is supposed to be a good color combination for bass, so I tied this one up last night:
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...yeBassWorm.jpg

For you guys that DO fish these (or something similar), do you have better luck with heavier versions hopping along the bottom...or lighter version swimming shallow/mid-depth?

When I used to spin-fish for bass years ago, I would have pretty good luck with plastic worms on 1/16 oz jigheads...just heavy enough to hop, but light enough to slowly swim it as well.
Also...has anyone ever experienced issues with the chenille "unravelling" on these? I DID melt the end of it...

I tied something VERY simular to this a couple years ago also... I never fished it much either, or ever I don't think. I was going along the line that it resembled a rubber worm, I think this will have better action though. I think it would work. I sometimes fish rubber worms on the bottom, and sometimes I throw them completely weightless... it's up to the fish. Wish I could tell you more about it, but I'm glad you posted this. You can see mine at http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...5323203&type=3

I have a couple of worm flies that have not been used the one I like the looks of the best is made of two strands of olive catcus chennile tied at the tips with a red section of marabou, my version of a firetail on a plastic worm, then furl the strands to the length you like; secure to the hook and wrap forward; tied off and add a black hen hackle.

The only way I have found to keep medium or larger chenille from unraveling is to furl two pieces together.

I've never used a fly like that, or tied one. I have fished unweighted plastic worms and the bass usually hit on the fall (DUH) fairly close to the surface 2 or 3 ft. down. I have another question though, how deep is deep for a fly? I fish jigs and worm rigs 15 or 20 feet, but that seems unworkable for a fly.

I had the same thought... and that has A LOT to do with why I never fished them. On a spinning reel you can be more versitle as far as how deep you want to fish... I don't see you being able to effectively fly fish with one of these any deeper than maybe 6-8ft??? I'm deployed right now but when I get home I'm planning a smallmouth trip in MO somewhere... Does anyone have any ideas or thoughts on using them for smallmouth?

I think, and it has been shown, worm like flies can be effective for bass. Unless you like chunking lot of split shot and have a lot more patience than I do, you are going to need to target the bass when they are shallow. But along weed lines you should be able to catch some fish, I think I still have a foam floating snake head to be used with a plastic worm that could be made into a fly. I have never fished streams for smallmouth but I would think drifting them along seams would be effective.

Dave,

I'm primarily a bass fisherman. I started with conventional gear, fished tournaments for many years, and only in the last twenty years discovered the long rod.

As fly tyers, we really get hung up on a how fly 'looks'. Probably the trout fishing roots and all that 'match the hatch' stuff. There is something about how a soft plastic worms moves in the water that makes it so efffective. It's a combination of mass, stiffness to softness ratios, water displacement, and a few other intangibles that make it the number one bass lure ever created.

While we can tie a fly to look like a plastic worm, our efforts seldom work as effectively. Primarily because our restrictions on weight and materials used mean that the fly doesn't move like the worm.

We can get close, though, but flies tied to look like worms haven't proven to be an effective substitute for me. What I always wanted was a fly that 'caught the same fish'. I've tied and fished several dozen versions of such flies, and all have been disapointing at best.

My search finally lead me to examining the way the worm moves in the water, and then trying to get a fly that 'duplicates' that movement. Mainstream bass anglers fish soft plastics rigged many different ways, so several different ties were required to match the methods used.

The easiest one for me to match was the standard 'texas rigged' worm. With a bullet weight of modest weight this bait lifts and glides as it falls on the standard 'lift the rod, let it fall, take up the slack' retrieve. Most, if not all, of the strikes on this rig come as the worm glides back to the bottom. To get the same action, and the same fish, a Clouser minnow fished in the same way will work as well, often better. It's restricted to shallower waters, maybe down to ten feet, floating line and long leader. You have to use the rod lift/drop retrieve, though, or it won't work. As with the real soft plastic worm, strikes come on the fall.

The carolina rig, with it's heavy weight bottom hugging glide required a different approach. Full sinking line, unweighted fly. For this, I use a Semi-Seal leech. Size 2 to 6, 4x long, no weight. This fly is slim in the water and it's by far my most effective bass technique.

For matching the weightless plastic worm with it's glide and slow fall, I use a floating line, long heavy mono tippet, and a bead head leech. The heavy tippet keeps it falling slowly and prevents the bead from dragging it head first.

We are at an advantage with the suspended soft plastic techniques like the shaky head or swimming worm simply because we can better control the depth. The standard 'strip-strip-strip' retrieve matches the up and down pattern of these techniques perfectly, and with the appropriate type of line we can outfish most conventional anglers with a lightly weighted clouser.

I'm still working on the vertical presentation shallow water/target fishing presentation. Bass take these baits on a slack line as they fall, and the soft plastic makes them hold on until you figure out you've been bit and can set the hook. Most flies aren't that lifelike in feel, and a bass can expell a fly pretty quickly. I have a weighted spun deer hair and rabbit strip fly that seems promising, but I've not fished it enough to be confident of it yet.

As far as depth goes, I can use a fast sinking line and a leech effectively down to about 20 feet. I just don't fly fish any deeper than that.

The only time a fly tied to look like a worm worked well for me was in a seldom fished farm pond in Alabama. I think the fish there would have eaten anything.

Good Luck!

Buddy

Buddy....your post is a "KEEPER"!
Thank you for sharing your extensive insight and experience.
I'd be interested in seeing some photos of your top patterns/colors.

A local fly angler that sometimes targets bass also likes Clousers (natural colors) in clearer deeper waters, and Deceivers (brighter colors, especially yellow) in shallower murkier waters.
It sounds like that although these fly rod "bass worms" look pretty cool, they may not be very effective. Or at least not as effective as some other options.

Another option might be (for those willing to push the acceptable boundaries of fly-fishing) to try actual plastics on fly gear. Seems like they might be difficult to cast due to their weight, however.

Buddy, thanks for the post! Lots of excellent things to chew on there...

I have used lightweight plastics on both my 5 and 3 weight rods with some success. These baits are ones intended for ultralight spinning and are very small.

I can, and have, thrown a 4 inch soft plastic worm with my 6 weight.

It isn't pretty, but it does cast. It can be effective in shallow water, but it is difficult to set the hook if you texas rig the worm. If you don't have too much cover and can get away with an open hook, it's easier.

I don't do that anymore, though. I prefer to fish with flies that I've tied, and I now have enough confidence in them that I can leave the worms in their bags.

Smaller 'trout' worms, crappie tails, little tubes, things like that aren't a problem to cast with a fly rod. Some of these are only an inch or inch and a half long. I just find them too small for bass fishing under most circumstances, and I have flies that work better anyway. Even a 4 inch worm is a 'small' bait for bass under most conditions, and a 6 inch worm is just too much to chuck with a fly rod unless you like to throw a 9 or 10 weight. Still not pretty, even with a heavy rod.

Buddy

Yup, Clousers are great for bass (crappies and 'gills too)! Tie 'em all black with red eyes.

I like these for my area, bass and pickeral seem to like them.
Attachment 9532Attachment 9533Attachment 9534Attachment 9536Attachment 9535

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Buddy Sanders

... a 6 inch worm is just too much to chuck with a fly rod unless you like to throw a 9 or 10 weight.

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That's the same conclusion Tom Nixon came to about forty years ago. He didn't mind using that size rod for bass. More recently, Jack Ellis said the same thing in Bassin' with a Fly Rod. Personally, I'd rather throw a worm with spinning tackle.

Db4D,

Therein lies the rub.

I can catch bass with a worm on a spinning or casting rod. I want to catch bass on my fly rods. Which is what started the whole search for a suitable substitute 'fly' in the first place.

Now I can catch lots of bass on my fly rods. Still caught more at certain times of the year with conventional gear, but that's okay. For me it's not just about catching fish, it's about catching fish how I want to catch them.

Good Luck!

Buddy

I use my 8wt. rod for bass flies including my 10" worms with a tungston cone head. never had a problem casting them. it is a chuck and duck sort of cast with the cone head, but gets the job done.

I've done much better with unweighted worms (Senko type) than a Texas-rigged weighted worm......by far! I need to tie up some worms for the fly rod.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Buddy Sanders

For me it's not just about catching fish, it's about catching fish how I want to catch them.

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I understand completely. :D

Check out JigCraft.com and a guy called Pup!!!!!!!! He does some of those that are amazing!!!!!!!!! Here's one thread but there's lots more

http://www.jigcraft.com/jigcraft/sho...d.php?tid=1770

Fatman, those look pretty good! I'm not 100% sure, but it appears Pup furled the tail on his.

I decided to tie up some of these worms weightless:
(weighted one is in the the picture too)
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...weightless.jpg
For size comparison, the hooks on these worms are all size 2, and the worms are around 5" long.

And then I also tied up some longer Clousers. I don't have a lot of colors of bucktail to choose from, so I tied these with Craft Fur:
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ssClousers.jpg

I'm also looking forward to trying some deer hair poppers for bass this year:
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...BassPopper.jpg

From above: "While we can tie a fly to look like a plastic worm, our efforts seldom work as effectively. Primarily because our restrictions on weight and materials used mean that the fly doesn't move like the worm."

Long before the plastic or rubber worm as they were called you'd find the Uncle Josh's Pork Rind products in amost every bass fisherman's box. (frogs, strips twin tails, eels and more) They worked as well or even better than today's worm products and still do but they are messy, and dry out if not cared for plus you need to keep them in a watertight jar. Many years ago I tried imitaing the rubber worm with a fly but thiuking of the old pork rind eel, I quickly migrated to rabbit fur and chamois strips. I have used them from five to 12" long with and without lead eyes and they are deadly. My best big bass getter is a purple black strip with the fur shaved off except for a paddle tail of fur and with weedguards to help with fouling. I use a bit of shapplen palmered on for a head.

Good luck and although a smaller strip eel will catch a lot more bass, always keep a nine to 12" one handy for those ten lb plus critters.
:cool:

The absolute best worm fly I have ever used is Richard Komar's incredible Hard-hackle Worm. The bass tear this thing up, and I have tied them with weighted bodies to good effect as well. My best color is purple.

Attachment 9650

You can see the whole pattern instructions on the FOTW for Oct 31, 2005.

The late, great warmwater tyer, Tom Nixon, used to say the the very best "bass fly" was a 4 inch rubber worm, fished weightless...

Maybe it 'aint strictly flyfishing, but it works!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bowfin47

The late, great warmwater tyer, Tom Nixon, used to say the the very best "bass fly" was a 4 inch rubber worm, fished weightless...

Maybe it 'aint strictly flyfishing, but it works!

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I agree. I'm a big fan of Tom and think he was way ahead of his time. Chuck S mentioned the pork rind above, and Tom used that also. He cast a small pork rind strip (often with a spinner) for bluegill. He said it was the best bluegill "fly" he ever used.

I guess I have to make a confession here. I have actually tied a bare #8 light wire worm hook on the end of my fly leader, and threaded a live worm onto it, and fished with it.

OK. There. I said it........I'm so ashamed....I live-bait fished with a fly rod....and enjoyed it. Thinking back on it makes me feel dirty. It doesn't help that I caught several dozen panfish, just as fast as I could cast out.

It gets even worse...I have even hooked a live frog, grasshoppers and crickets on my fly rod and caught fish. One time, I even stuck a live minnow on it and just let it swim around on it's own. A 4 lb, bass slammed it within 2 minutes.

I have to go do Pennance, now. I have sentenced myself to reading three chapters of Izaak Walton tonight.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bowfin47

The late, great warmwater tyer, Tom Nixon, used to say the the very best "bass fly" was a 4 inch rubber worm, fished weightless...

Maybe it 'aint strictly flyfishing, but it works!

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gigmaster

I have to go do Pennance, now. I have sentenced myself to reading three chapters of Izaak Walton tonight.

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Now, now, it's o.k.

Please remember that there aren't any fly fishing police looking over your shoulder! HA!

Well Walton, that devil, used bait all the time.

I am still working on chenille worms myself. But in the back of my mind something says, "Just use a plastic worm." I had problems with durability when using soft plastics on a fly rod. Now Strik King 3X and Z-Man have these slow sinking salt impregnated worms made of a super strong-not plastisol-material. With an 8-9 fly rod I have cast them Texas or Wacky rigged.http://zmanfishing.com/store/categor.../finesse_wormz

About a year ago I used rubber for some worm patterns. They looked decent, I just never tried them on the fish.
I tied a bent staple to the hook shank to keep the worm from sliding down the hook shank, and also put a "bump" of dubbing near the hook bend for the same reason.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2..._BassWorms.jpg