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Now that I have over come my fear of wings I've tried some downwing and partial downwing patterns. I'm not having much luck!! Now I've done it before by accident!! What was the accident?! I tried some partial downwing's last night but after adding the hackle they were upright? The fly was an Adam's. Any suggestion/advice.
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Don't forget the Michigan Fish-In August 14th to the 20th. The Holy Water's of the Au Sable await you!!
Cactus
Hi Jack, I'm not sure how your Downwing Adams got to be an upwing after wrapping the hackle.
The bright side to this is, you should never have a problem with upwinged flies. ha
If you tie the wings in first leaving enough room in front of the wing to wrap the hackle, you should be o.k.
But, I have a feeling I'm missing something here. Are you trying to tie the wings in the midst of the hackle?
-Yaf
Are you trying to tie them over a big hump of dubbing,chenille,etc.?
yaffle;
Yes. I have a photo of a Borcher's special that shows very wide partialy spent wing's. It shows hackle behind the wings as well as in front. I wonder if when the transition to the front of the wings was inbetween them?
ducksterman;
No. The body is Turky Tail to the wings. The hackle is brown and grizzly.
This fly is an old traditionl Au Sable River (MI) fly based on the Adam's.
Jack, I have never had to tie a slant/downwing that way, I can see how stiff hackle could force the wing to stand upright. When I get a chance I'm going to try this.
One suggestion, hold the wings back with one hand while you wind the hackle with the other. Bacause I've never tied this way I'm not toally sure that will work but I am going to try and let you know how it turns out. -Yaf
Jack,
There can be several scenarios at play here, and as I have insufficient information from your post, will paint more than one.
Some materials flare, regardless the surface structure these materials are tied down on. For example, hollow deer hair, tied down to a hard, smooth surface, such as a (thread covered) hook shank will still flare as the thread pressure 'bites' down into the material. The routine approach to curb the flaring is to first tie down with hard wraps, then a couple 'roping in' softer turns moving up the wing, followed by a couple hard turns at the original tie-in point. Especially on some downwing caddis patters, such as a Solomon Caddis, this approach is effective.
Tying down 'hard' hair, such as squirrel tail hair, will not exhibit much flare no matter how much pressure you apply with the thread wraps. Feather barbs generally fall between these two extremes, but are closer in behavior to the squirrel hair.
Material choice matters.
However, even squirrel hair will flare under certain situations. So onwards to scenario two.
Consider you are tying down this hair just in front of a fatter abdomen. The hair forming the wing will have to 'climb' the ridge formed by the abdomen, and as a result will angle away from the shank.
For scenario three the same hard squirrel hair is tied down on a level underbody, but in this case it is a 'soft' underbody, for example one which has been dubbed. The hard thread wraps needed to tie down the wing will cinch down into the dubbed body. Immediately next to the tie-in point, on either side, an impromptu ridge is formed and yet again the wing material is forced upwards.
Any of the above might apply to your situation?
Cheers,
Hans W
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Hans;
Thank you. You did answer several questions I had about material's and how to tie them in. The Madsen's Barber Pole (Another variation of the Adam's) calls for squirrel for the tail and it does not flare. Now I know why. The Borcher's Special calls for Moose hair and it flares.
I'm going to email you the reciepe and maybe you can give me more help.
Jack
For what it's worth the instructions I have for the borcher special from a retired professional tier who used to sell it call for wings to be either upright or spent. I believe he sold them both ways.
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all leaders tangle; mine are just better at it than most. Jim