Fly Head Cement

The oxymoron to end all oxymorons...water based cement?

Was on my last drops of cement and went to the local shop to get cement. All he had was water based cement. He told me the other cement was on back order for so long and becoming harder and harder to get that he finally had to give in and order the water based. Said this waterbased stuff was more enviormentally friendly (what?!) and doesn't require thinner, except H2O when needed.

Comments? Is this guy selling me a bill of goods?

I've tied up some flies; and, I'm not getting the same gloss as the 'olde' stuff plus the first coat seems to soak in warranting multiple coats. Other problems, because it is more liquid it wants to run into my eye and requires overnight drying to to assure it won't disolve. I've already glued one fly to my finger. I thought it was dry enough to move from vise to my foam board for further drying and the fly stuck to my index finger! Now I have to set my vise in front of a fan to dry when I could be starting a new fly!

Please don't tell me the industry has changed over. Please assure me the 'olde' stuff is still being made. Please oh please oh please.

Jim

head to the local home improvement boutique, get yourself a can of clear lacquer and a can of lacquer thinner. thats about a lifetime supply of cement.Hopefully you saved the little square jar the old stuff cam in to put the new into. put a marble or some shot to facilitate mixing the base and thinner. total cost about 12 bucks.:tieone:

If water based isn't working for you I recommend Sally Hansons Hard As Nails finger nail polish. Clear works as an all around choice but it also comes in a variety of colors. The black works very well on streamer heads. Dries pretty fast and if thinning is required a few drops of fingernail polish remover seems to do the job.

Jim -

I've been using a water based head cement for the past couple years. I am well satisfied with the one I have. You do tend to use a bit more, as you suggested, because it does soak in more than the old head cements I started with five years ago. But I don't have a problem with it filling the eye of the hook - in fact, I have less problems in that regard with the water based head cement than the old stuff.

My flies are pretty durable, and I think the head cement helps. When I salvage hooks from flies tied using the water based product, it is very difficult to cut through and remove the wraps at the head that were coated with the head cement.

I suspect that the water based products are marginally safer for moderate use and more environmentally friendly. Personally, I prefer not to use solvent based glues, cements, cleaners, etc. I think I read somewhere that the actual cementing ingredients in the water based cements are the same as in the old cements, only the medium has changed.

The water based products are supposed to take more time to dry, as I recall, but that isn't really an issue. I've tied flies finished with water based head cement and fished them the same day with no problems.

John

Jim,
I've used the water based head cement for a number of years now. Got such a high off the old stuff, that I figured any thing would be better. Flys probably looked a bit better to me under the fog of chemicals, but they stay together very well with the new. If I want a glossy head I'll usually put on a couple coats of WB and let it soak in good, then hit it lightly with some Sally Hansen. The trees and fish I catch don't seem to mind.
Betty

A few years ago California passed laws limiting the use of 'volital organic solvents' (VOS) since then most manufactors of floor finishes have developed water based rather than solvent based formulas. California is such a large market that it can drive changes in an entire industry. The enviromental impact has to do with the airborne release of the solvents, sounds like a small thing but thousands of gallons of the stuff is used daily and there is clear evidence that it is harmful to breath.

I expect that the entire varnish, paint and laquer industry will start to move in this direction. Some of the earlier formulas just plain sucked, but the current generation of floor finishes might even out perform the older solvent ones, and you no longer have to leave your home for a week while the fumes subside.

If you can't find your favorite old stuff I suggest you try some plain old nail polish. Comes in all kinds of colors and you can get it almost anywhwere. I particularly like the Sally Hansons HARD AS NAILS brand.

Let's see...washed the dinner dishes...took down the tent from airing out for the trip this weekend...is my fly dry enough to take out of the vise...YES! Hoo Hoo, I can start another fly.

Yes I'm exaggerating. It just seems the 'olde' stuff dried faster.

Hmm, :rolleyes: I guess God did bless me with three girls. Time to go and raid their stash of finger nail polish. :lol:

Here in California, about all we can get in almost anything is water based...
But then, it almost never rains here. So when it does, we just repaint. :rolleyes:

You think water based fly head cement is the pits?
Try water based junk on fine woodworking. It really messes up wood! :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alra195

If water based isn't working for you I recommend Sally Hansons Hard As Nails finger nail polish. Clear works as an all around choice but it also comes in a variety of colors. The black works very well on streamer heads. Dries pretty fast and if thinning is required a few drops of fingernail polish remover seems to do the job.

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YEA !!! besides that, sallys dont wick into the tying material like water base head cement will... dries fast too..

I use Sally Hansen's as well. With a single application, it is a dull finish, with multiple coats, it gets glossy. Doesnt harden in the bottle, and, as said, dries fairly quickly.

Hi Jim,

I've used Fly Tite Head Cement since I came back to fly tying in 2000. It thins with alcohol and has no noticiable smell. It has proven to be highly satisfactory and holds well with one application. For a little more gloss, I use two coats. For display flies, I go with Sally Hansen. I grew up with the scent of Herter's head cement and that smell still means fly tying to me but Fly Tite has proven to be a really good substitute and it doesn't kill brain cells as quickly as the Herters brand. Like other who have posted earlier, I have no complaints. 8T :)

I guess I have used almost everything hat has come on the market.
If I want a shiny build up head, then it is Sally H.
A couple years ago I was at a show and my booth was close to Chris Helm.
I was watching him and when he went to add head cement, I asked what kind he was using?
FLY-TIGHT, Made by FLY-RITE, Inc. I purchased a 2 oz bottle from Chris. It is the best I have ever used. No Toxic Solvent Fumes. It uses Denatured ethyl alcohol to dilute if needed. ( I have never needed to dikute.) It has never solidified in my applicator bottle, no mess, does not stick or dry in the fine tube of the applicator. (all others have given me a problem by messin up the tube)
The price tag is still on the bottle, $4.50
I'm not sure where it can be purchased?
Tip:
If cement runs into the eye of your hook, just stick the stem of a cut off hackle and draw it thru the eye. I routinely do this as I tie on all flies. (hate to have an eye closed up when fishin) It dries quickly.

Denny

I use copious amounts of Dave's Flexament and Sally Hansen Hard as Nails. All of it bought routinely in California.

Best, Dave

These days, with the exception of flies I tie for swaps, I don't use head cement. Whip finish seems to do the job just fine.

in order of preference:
whip finish
water based
any inexpensive nail polish - mine is .99 at RiteAid.

i use griffs thin and the fish dont seem to care! :)

Another vote for Sally Hansens Hard-as-Nails clear. All I use. I also use black and red for streamer heads.

I use Wet & Wild Rock Solid Nail Polish for head cement, to coat nymph & caddis larva bodies, etc. For the head usually a coat of water based cement, then a coat of wet & wild rock solid. You get a very nice glassy sheen to your head !!!!

I use Loctite "Super Glue Control". Put a drop on a old or damaged CD and ues you bobkin to place it where needed. The drop wil stay useable for 6 or so flies.

I also use Sally Hansen when I need to build up a head or make a hard body.

Jim, If you do start using Sally Hansens Hard As Nails here's a little heads up. Use your nippers to cut the brush off, then apply it with a bodkin or similar tool. I don't know how many times my wife has taken the bottle off my fly tying table claiming I was using her nail polish. Jim

Have you tried Hard as Hull cement?

I am convinced that Hard-as-Hull is a remarketed Sally Henson product. Even the bottle is the same:-D

I work in a custom cabinetry shop, and we have tested the new water based lacquers. They do set up harder and wear better once dry. They can be clearer (good for woodworking), but at this time we cannot afford to switch to the water based products because the drying time is so much longer. Our timeline would have to change drastically, as well as our procedures. The lacquer we use now can be touch dry in 10min, which for us means no dust settling into the finish on the final coat leaving a great surface. With the waterbased, we'd have to double the air filtering to remove dust in the spray room, and we'd still have problems. At this point we can remove parts from the drying racks in 30min. With water based we'd have to extend that to an hour, which doubles the time for parts to move through the spray room. At this time, unless legislation changes thing, we simply can't afford to use water based.

As for fly tying, I'm not a production tyer, and taking the time for one or two more coats is not unbearable. I don't mind using it. But if I was tying to sell, then that's another issue.

Dave