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I need to do some work on a few bamboo rods that I own.I am at the stage that I will only attempt to change a guide or polish a rod up and leave other jobs to the pros.
What size silk thread should I use for wrapping guides and what size do I use for tipping or intermediates? Is there any time that you would use nylon thread with bamboo and if so what size?
Thanks
Tom
:D
Tom
All my threads are # 521 Nylon "A" from Hook & Hackle. I used #221 Orange on a bamboo with no preseritive and it turned out transparent, just a slight tint of orange. Very nice looking.
I prefer Pearsall's Gossamer silk thread. Belding Corticelli is another classic silk, but harder to find.
The silks come from a variety of makers but you will find that Pearsall's is one of the best out there. Pearsall's is available from many of the sponsors, and if you can't find in there, let me know and I can help you with it. The problem that you will encounter is matching current silks with those wraped on older rods...can be very trying and most often requires a little playing with the varnish overcoat to get a match. Gudebrod is also another supplier of silks in 2 or 3 different sizes. As far as the accent wraps, I like the Pearsall's Gossamer, and often will wrap with Gossamer exclusively on new bamboo blanks. Golden Witch is another source for good silks.
When you need to match silk on an older bamboo flyrod, and you want to use the original silk, they can be very hard to find and are often very expensive. there are folks out there though, Darrell Lee, as an example, that do have some of the original $ilk$
Thanks for the help but I really need to know sizes as its really confusing. Is 2/0 silk to thick for main wraps or to thin. For trim do you go smaller or use the same diameter. What is the size equivilant in silk compared to size A nylon is this too thick for bamboo fly rods?
Tom
hmm that is what you asked for, isn't it...sorry, here is a comparison chart from Gudebrod
Size DIAMETER inch/mm
00 .005(.0127)
0 .006(.152)
A .007(.178)
B .008(.203)
C .0108(.274)
D .012(.305)
E .0128(.325)
F .0137(.348)
FF .015(.381)
FFF .0165(.419)
a lot of the threads that you will see, for instance thread designated 6/0, or 8/0, is really small stuff and while you can wrap with it, it covers very slowly, and breaks a lot, and is not really meant to wrap rods with. The sizes above will be fairly consistent in silk to nylon but will wrap and act differently one to the other. Gossamer, by Pearsalls is a 00 size and I have wrapped with it and it does come out well but once again is a pain in the anterior posterior to wrap with. I usually do go smaller thread on the accent wraps as it enables better transition from the rod to the wrap, that is just a preference., and your last question, NO. there are lots of folks wrapping bamboo with size A nylon thread and it does nicely.
the neat thing about rod building, and I think everyone would agree to this, is that this is YOUR build and YOUR rod and there are no set rules that say you can or can't do something on your build, like thread selection in color or size, or the type of guides that you use, it is all about your expression and your artistic inclinations. There are things that are done "traditionally" and lots of folks really try to stick to tradition. But if we always do that and if that had always been done, then we wouldn't have the types and diverstiy in equiptment today that we have, and thank God above for those that went out on a limb and tried something new.
Have some fun and be creative with it tom
that's bout all I got to say bout that
If these are older rods (presumably not terribly collectible or you wouldn't be thinking of doing the work yourself), you should know that most factory rods were made with size A or size 2/0 silk, which isn't the same as A or 00 nylon. If you are going to strip a rod down and redo all the wraps, you will probably want to use size 2/0 or 3/0 silk. If you are doing one wrap, you want to try to match sizes within one size (if the rod is wrapped in A, don't go smaller than 2/0 on your repair). Colors are very hard to match because they have aged/faded and the varnish/shellac/combination has aged. Match the thread color after you've stripped it from the rod and you'll get close. If the wraps appear opaque and the colors bright, you'll need to use color preserver under the varnish or use a varnish like Varathane 900. Anglers Workshop markets a line of silk threads in size 50 and 100 (2/0 and 3/0) that are high quality, easy to use, and relatively cheap (look to be YLI brand threads). Depending on your rod building experience, you will have an easy or hard time with silk thread. It doesn't stretch like nylon, there are "nubs" in even the best thread that can be small enough that a quick pass with an alcohol lamp will take care of, or large enough that the wrap needs redoing. 3/0 thread (which is kind of medium thickness by modern bamboo standards, is pretty thin stuff and it is easy to cross wrap it without good lighting and magnification. This won't show much until you put the finish on, at which point it will stand out like a neon sign. My advice is to go slowly, don't be afraid to redo a wrap until it looks good under a magnifying glass, "pack" the threads tightly together with a smooth wooden or plastic tool or your thumbnail (make sure your hands are very clean and your nails trimmed and edges smooth before starting)--also file off rough spots on fingertips. When you've done your best work, use many thin coats of spar varnish, let the final coat dry for a couple of weeks to harden up, and fish the rod. Later, if you keep doing this, you'll find things in that first rod you don't like, but most people won't see it and the fish don't care. Pearsalls Gossamer, btw, is closer to 4/0 and isn't appropriate (too thin) for most older rods. Pearsalls Naples is close to 2/0 and is a better choice, but colors are very limited. YLI/Anglers Workshop and Tire brand are available in many more colors for an easier match. Some late model (post WWII) older rods (Orvis and Winston, for example), used nylon thread for a while. The way to tell is to strip the old thread and hold it up to a flame. If it melts, it's nylon. Silk will char. Older nylon will either be A (like Orvis) or 00 (Winston). Gudebrod no longer offers 00 nylon in the beige color Winston used to use, but beige silk will work. Gudebrod 531(med brown), size A is a good match for a lot of old Orvis rods (bamboo and first generation graphite).
-CC
Thanks all you've been a great help.
Tom