the "myth" of the wealthy fly fishermen

from "Pennsylvania Angler and Boater" magazine March/April 2013
discussing the newly designated "Laurel Highlands Trout Trail"

"The trail most specifically targets fly anglers because of the demographics they represent" said Murty. (Monty Murty, President of Trout Unlimited Forbes Trail Chapter and Pennsylvania's representative on its national council.) Research done by the Recreational Fishing and Boating Foundation and the Outdoor Foundation revealed freshwater anglers most commonly earn between $25,000 and $49,000 per year. When you look at fly anglers in particular though, they earn $100,000 on average.
A United States Fish and Wildlife Service study additionally found that trout anglers tend to be more educated (?!?!) and spend more on things like transportation, guide services and equipment annually than other anglers.
"Once people start to see the demographics of fly fishing, they start to think wow, these are the people we should be marketing to," said Murty.

Just passin' it on.

He's been smokin dope to juggle those figures.

"Average" can be a very misleading statistic. It does not take many very high paid angler to balance out a whole lot of lower paid anglers. And I suspect a higher percentage of highly paid folks are attracted to fly fishing than to bait fishing.

I earn that much. Not in a year, mind, but... eventually. :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jszymczyk

...When you look at fly anglers in particular though, they earn $100,000 on average.....

---

I only want to know two things:

1) What's this person smoking?

2) Where can I get some of it?

I know I sure don't make $100K/year.........

Hi All,

With his income, Ted Turner, and a few similar folks, can raise the income average of a lot of us.

In reality though, fly fishermen tend to be older guys, and older guys do tend to have a little higher incomes on the average. I have doubts about whether it is that much higher though.

One added thought, besides being more highly educated, they should also mention that we are better looking......well maybe?

Regards,

Gandolf

I think oldfrat is on the mark. If, for example, you have 9 fly anglers earning nothing and 1 fly angler earning $1M, that's an average of $100K. I'm sure the typical or median fly angler earns much less than $100K. But I'd also imagine that fly fishing has more than our share of high income anglers compared to other forms of angling.

Well shoot, I'm going to feel bad about distorting that average when I win the Powerball tomorrow night...

I used to think there were more high income fly anglers than others as well. That was until I got the batch of orders for custom baitcast and spinning rods that has come in over the last couple of months. These are pricing out right up there with the fly rods.

That said, when I got into fly fishing I discovered it could be every bit as expensive as golf if not more so. I am very glad I chose fishing over golf, though. Rods are a lot more fun to build than putters. :)

I thought fly fishing was the cure for wealth. :)

It's interesting to see the company in which I am included in Pennsylvania. The way our economy has been locally the last 3 years $25,000 would be a raise. I have now come to fully understand the phrase "taking work just to keep your men busy". They've made more than me the last 3.

It may be that way in PA but I don't believe that would hold true in Missouri. That and one can pick and choose among demographics to make something say what you want it to say. And as others have stated, when averaged, numbers can be skewed both ways.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PA Dave

I thought fly fishing was the cure for wealth. :)

---

No, that's sailing.

I would gladly skew these figures on the high end but the chances are nil. Fly fishing pays me in ways the dollar never can. Now that is precious.

I also am not in Murty's "average fly fisherman" group, and I am looking at a 15-20% pay cut this year as well.

Pennsylvania is a time-honored, historic fly fishing location. If the stereotypes cited are indeed false, why would their marketing model so prominently assert them?

Every myth has some truth in its origin.

Okay, there are those among us who don't fit the 'average' that that author has identified. I certainly don't. However, if you were to take the 'average' of other individual catagories of fishermen(women included), I'm guessing that the author is right. If it weren't such a waste of time, energy, money and nonsense it might be interesting to see how the author differentiates the "freshwater anglers" and the "fly anglers". Seems there's a crossover and overlap. Hey, but then again, the Recreational Fishing and Boating Foundation and the Outdoor Foundation were probably given a hefty $$$$$s grant to do some really dumba** study from which they came up with that finding.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Allan

Hey, but then again, the Recreational Fishing and Boating Foundation and the Outdoor Foundation were probably given a hefty $$$$$s grant to do some really dumba** study from which they came up with that finding.

---

"There are Lies, damned lies, and statistics" - Benjamin Disraeli, populized by Mark Twain

Using a single statistic of "average income" is a keyhole look at best. If they had a graph showing income in increments of $10,000 on one axis and the number of fly fishermen in each income level on the other, they would have a very different and more useful picture of the truth. Throw in another graph showing income increments vs. age of angler and the picture would be even clearer. Statistics are only as good as the variables they consider, and it's impossible to include all the variables.

WOW !! I think I need to try fishing in PA. Just maybe I can rub elbows with some of that cash they got down there. lol lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jszymczyk

Research done by the Recreational Fishing and Boating Foundation and the Outdoor Foundation revealed freshwater anglers most commonly earn between $25,000 and $49,000 per year. When you look at fly anglers in particular though, they earn $100,000 on average.

---

What I find interesting is that the people in the $25K-$49K group regularly spend tens of thousands on a boat, motor, and trailer but would laugh in your face at the mention of a $700 fly rod.

Well, if they took their samples at TU meetings, that might explain their problem. The last one I went to was full of folks like that, and the rest of us unwashed were not welcomed. Never returned, never paid dues again.

What? You went to the primary source and critically evaluated the article based on actual facts? That's unheard of, almost radical (and for those unfamiliar with the internet, sarcasm intended). There is indeed a lot of useful information on the Recreational Fishing and Boating Foundation pages.

Considering the gist of the Frye article is that the fly fishing community is worth targeting, which is hardly news, I'm not sure where the problem is. Of course, he got the numbers wrong, but that is nothing new in the world of journalism.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnScott

There is some very interesting information in the actual report, for those interested and willing to spend some time to become better informed.

---

I thought the "ethnicity" was interesting. Fly fishing was shown as 79% Caucasian/white whereas freshwater fishing is slightly "whiter" at 83.1%. My experience does not support that. I've met exactly two non-white fly fishermen in my life, but I see loads of non-whites using spinning/casting tackle.

I don't find the figure unbelievable at all; it's slightly lower than both TU and FFF report. BUT:

1) The number is family income, not individual income. 50k apiece in a two income family.
2) In some parts of the country, that figure isn't much above the poverty level. In the Bay Area of California for example, you probably couldn't own a house if that were your family income.
3) The figures are self reported; some people are going to inflate their income.
4) The self-reported aspect especially affects the ethnicity numbers. I personally always answer "other" to that question because I think none of anyone's business. (And hey, my grandmother had a small amount of Amerind ancestry, so I'm not lying.) I'm not the only one who thinks that way.
5) Although I've only encountered a few African-Americans while fly fishing, I've known quite a few Asian-American and Native American who FF.
6) How many SUVs do you see parked along trout stream vs. econo-box? Each of those is a considerable portion of the 50k apiece mentioned above, and most people don't own vehicles that cost a year's income.

I think I will go with my theory that the article was written by a jouralism major, who struggled through college algebra and reallly doesn't know the correct definition of the work Average.

I didn't see the article, but it seems to me that average annual income may be interesting, but isn't necessarily relevant. If I were a manufacturer or retailer in the fly fishing industry, I'd be more interested in how much money is spent annually on the various categories of fly fishing related items, trends in this spending over time, etc.

That being said, I can't help thinking back to one night some years ago on the Beaverkill when a husband and wife showed up to fly fish in their chauffeur driven Mercedes limo. After they had assembled their fishing gear, donned their waders, and walked down to the river, the wife yelled to me where I was fishing on the opposite bank.

"What is the average depth of the water here?" she asked.

"It's probably about 3 feet deep out in front of you" I answered.

"Thanks" she said. Then she promptly stepped off the bank and into a hole behind a big rock that was at least 4 or 5 feet deep. She tumbled into the water, head over heels, and dropped one of her big fly boxes that she had apparently been holding open, in her hand. She was okay, although dripping wet from head to toe, and promptly righted herself. However, I could see dozens of her flys floating down the river.

So much for giving out "average" information!

John

Of course the assumption in the article is that people with more money spend more money. While sometimes true, it is part of the myth, too. There is a young man near the hunting camp I go to that went out and bought two Orvis rods, three reels, and God knows what else when he got into fly fishing and I guarantee that he wasn't making $20K a year at the time, with a new wife and young child to support. He spent more on those outfits than I have wrapped up in all the rods and reels that I have ever bought in my life. He spent money he didn't have yet.

very interesting conversation. The overall feel I'm getting is that the LH "Trout Trail" idea is basically TU behind the pulpit preaching to the choir.

Hmmm...I guess I'm doing my part to keep that average down to reasonable levels.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kbproctor

I used to think there were more high income fly anglers than others as well. That was until I got the batch of orders for custom baitcast and spinning rods that has come in over the last couple of months. These are pricing out right up there with the fly rods.

That said, when I got into fly fishing I discovered it could be every bit as expensive as golf if not more so. I am very glad I chose fishing over golf, though. Rods are a lot more fun to build than putters. :)

---

You can buy a lot of fly rods for the price of a kitted-out bass boat.

Ed

Whoever did this "report" has been sniffing waaaay too much head cement. And what difference does it make, anyway? As far as I am concerned, on the streams, or the water, we're all equal. We are all out there mostly for a love of the outdoors, and all the wholesome things it stands for.

Actually, I have seen reverse snobbery in some fly fishers. Guy walks up all decked out with top of the line gear and gets no help from nearby fly fishers because of the way he is dressed and the rod he carries. I've never experienced it as I don't own such stuff, but I have seen it and heard it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by oldfrat

Actually, I have seen reverse snobbery in some fly fishers. Guy walks up all decked out with top of the line gear and gets no help from nearby fly fishers because of the way he is dressed and the rod he carries. I've never experienced it as I don't own such stuff, but I have seen it and heard it.

---

When I read this, I thought of the first time all of my sons-in-law and I went fishing as a group. The hubby of the next to youngest girl, Greg, came looking like he stepped right out of an Orvis or Sage catalog. Everything was brand new and the best he could find. This was before I started fly fishing and the rest of us were outfitted with our old spinning rods, Colorado spinners, and power bait. He showed off his casting skills and staked out a section of the middle fork of Boulder Creek. We picked various spots both up and down stream from him agreeing to meet back at the trucks for lunch. We all showed up for lunch but Greg was missing. We ate and figured we better find him. Poor guy had fallen and managed to break the rod, tear the waders, drown his camera and phone, and lost his vest somewhere. Naturally, the poor guy has been the butt of every fishing joke anyone tells in the family since that day. Now, all of us but one fly fish and have a good time when we can get together for an outing. Greg won't touch new gear now for some reason.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by oldfrat

Actually, I have seen reverse snobbery in some fly fishers. Guy walks up all decked out with top of the line gear and gets no help from nearby fly fishers because of the way he is dressed and the rod he carries. I've never experienced it as I don't own such stuff, but I have seen it and heard it.

---

Money is not the same as snobbery, and why do you think the "nearby flyfishers" aren't just rich guys dressed down? The "snobbery" that you see is that of experienced fishers for beginners who appear to be buying their way into experience. It's not a class thing.

Bob, I could afford to buy the best. I choose not to do so. I'm naturally frugal, which is probably why I can still afford to buy the best if I wished. ;) I don't see highly outfitted newbies as trying to buy experience. I see them as trying to make sure their gear isn't getting in the way of the best result. Folks who could not afford to do this at the start had the opportunity to learn that the fish don't care what gear you are wearing and using.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by oldfrat

Bob, I could afford to buy the best. I choose not to do so. I'm naturally frugal, which is probably why I can still afford to buy the best if I wished. ;) I don't see highly outfitted newbies as trying to buy experience. I see them as trying to make sure their gear isn't getting in the way of the best result. Folks who could not afford to do this at the start had the opportunity to learn that the fish don't care what gear you are wearing and using.

---

I couldn't agree more. My only point was that you can't judge someone's affluence by the cost of their gear or by their apparent "snobbiness".