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Hi,
I have been struggling with my soft hackling. I seem to be getting a "twist" as I try to wrap. I'm stripping the bottom of the feather to get the webbies off, tieing in by the tip, trying get the dull side towards the hook shank. I also seem to be breaking the feather as I try to wrap. I get my hackle pliers on the tip, wrap carefully, I think, but keep breaking. This is all with partridge feathers as I have been working on some soft hackle flies. Thanks all!
Mike
Not certain but I think your feathers are dried out. Trying soaking the bottoms in a hint of water. I can't answer the twist thing as I seldom have that trouble.
As you wind stroke the fibres back with the index finger and thumb of your non tying hand. Its a technique from tying salmon flies called doubling. With game bird hackles it takes a deft touch to pull it off. If you do this, you can shape the hackle according to how you want it to be when finished. A little hair conditioner may help with the splitting of the stems.
Cheers,
A.
You just woke me up. How do you tie in by the tip and then put the hackle pliers on the tip? :rolleyes:
Partridge feathers are quite delicate you can't put much tension when you wrap.
There is another technique. You cut the tip out of the feather, place then feather over the eye pointing to the rear and , with your thread wrap, sort of spin it around the hook.
There appreciate videos on this technique. I think Craig Matthews has a video on the technique......
Ray,Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Kunz
I read and reread that twice. Just as confused as you and so I didn't answer the question.
Melk - Please clarify, maybe we'll understand your dilemma a little better and be able to respond.
Allan
agree that partridge hackles are very delicate. If you have a rotary vise, I sometimes tie in the hackle, clamp my hackle pliers onto the stem and let it hang then rotate the vise.
Okay. let me try again. I do have a rotary vise, fritz, I never thought of letting the hackle hang and rotating the vise. I 'll try that also. I have been trying this - I strip the fuzzy part off of the partridge feather. I carefully cut the tip section to make a "v" shape. Then I tie in the tip, concave side down, on top of the hook shank. So, I now grasp the stem of the feather with the hackle pliers and carefully try to align the feather perpendicular to the hook. As I wind the hackle around the hook, I seem to get a lot of twisting, the hackle twisting itself so that the feathers get "bunched" up. I have gotten about 3 out of 10 to look semi decent but would like to increase that ratio. The feathers may be old and referencing the post above, I may try to soak the stems a little. Also, I've read and viewed. It seems that 50 % tie the stem first, then warp, 50 % tie the tip, then wrap. I'm easy, what, in the collective wisdom, is the best way?
Thanks and I hope this clears my problem up a little.
I have a pack of Partridge feathers that would break easy while wrapping so I tried using the rotary to wrap the feather. Worked very well with the soft hackle without me pulling on the feather.Quote:
Originally Posted by fritz
Attachment 12045
This may not be the concensus but here is my way. After stripping off the fuzz, pull the fibers back exposing the little tip that you previously would clip off. Tie the feather in by this tip. clip off the excess, attach your pliers and wind on. In addition I would heavily moisten your left thumb and index fingers with saliva and stroke back every wrap right down onto the hook shank as you go.
Mike,
You done it again....you state the following: "I carefully cut the tip section to make a "v" shape. Then I tie in the tip"
If you cut the tip section out to make a "V", you have no tip to to tie in.
I think Ray has given you a good lesson to try. The way he ties his and explains it is the same way I tie mine. He suggested:
"This may not be the concensus but here is my way. After stripping off the fuzz, pull the fibers back exposing the little tip that you previously would clip off. Tie the feather in by this tip. clip off the excess, attach your pliers and wind on. In addition I would heavily moisten your left thumb and index fingers with saliva and stroke back every wrap right down onto the hook shank as you go."
Another way is to jump in your car/truck and drive to my house and we will sit and tie! : )
AAARGGGHHH!!! Where is my Brain!! I understand the confusion. If you check out the fly tying tips section here the technique I am trying to master is the one, I believe, listed as "Taming Soft Hackles". I tried again to describe what I did, but I deleted it! I understood what I meant but those of you with brains :) wouldn't. So, I will try again and thank you for your patience and help!
Mike
Mike,
Allow me to try with how I do it, which is not to say it's the best way. Just one that I'm comfortable witrh and has worked for me.
Take the feather and hold about 1/4 inch of the tip in your left thumb and forefinger. Gently stroke the remaining fibers toward the base. Peel off the fuzzy stuff and maybe a little extra so that you're left with enough fibers(barbs) needed to make 2 or 3 wraps of the hackle. Place the tip, concave side down, so that the junction of the barbs and where the tip fibers begin is at the tie down point. Tie the feather in and trim the exposed remaining tip. Grasp the butt in your right hand and hold the feather vertical. Moisten your left thumb and forefinger and gently, continuously stroke the fibers to the left as you wind the hackle to the right. I do not use hackle pliers for this. You get a better feel with more control with your fingers. This will 'fold' the hackle and point the fibers to the left as the fingers of your right hand control any twisting. I will wrap the 2 or 3 turns and then tie down with the thread.
Oh, I have no idea if your feathers are overly dry but buying loose partridge feathers will yield about 80% waste. Much better off buying a hen skin or a skin of any gamebird.
Hope this helps.
Allan
Thanks Alan. I'll give that a try. I understand your directions so now to translate it into action. I don't have time today but will try tomorrow. One point to clarify, if I may. The tip is tied down so that the concave side down is facing, as best I can describe it, to the rear of the hook. To try to be clear, the tip is tied so that if the hackle was bent, it would bend towards the rear of the hook. The part of the tip that is exposed is towards the eye. If I have done a fair job of describing, then I think I may be good. Yes, I'm using a package of loose partridge feathers. I do have a skin that I can pluck away at.
Thanks Alan!
Mike
Mike,
You might take a look at this. He ties his in by the butt of the feather, but, wrapping is the same technique.
http://www.flyanglersonline.com/flyt...070207fotw.php
Mike,
Allan has explained one way. Here I show you another. Take your pick :cool:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuK61AFV0NU
Cheers,
Hans W
Thank you, Hans for responding. I do not know why I did not think of finding one of your videos and posting a link to it, but, I am glad you did.
Mike - Hans is a fantastic tyer and his link should help you out.
Hans,Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans Weilenmann
Just curious and I have not tyed enough soft hackles to make a good comparison. I see why you strip one side and wrap back to the thread. I'm wondering if you ever follow the same sequence but tye in the hackle tip and wrap the hackle by grasping the butt?
Cheers
Allan
Very very rarely, Allan, and only when the feather used has a very fast taper stem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allan
Cheers,
Hans W
Thanks Hans, your youtubes are some of the very best! I can follow it and "see" what to do. Warren, thanks also for the link. I've copied and printed it out so I can follow it at my desk. I really need a screen suspended from the ceiling to view all these things!
Thanks, I think I'm getting it now!
Mike
Mike,
I would like to ask you to view Han's tying video again. What I want you to watch is when he is wrapping the hackle. Anytime you make one revolution of anything (garden hose, vac cord, etc.) you put a twist into the item which is why when you let your bobbin holder hang down, it whirls around in a circle. Every wrap of thread puts a twist into the thread. If you will watch what Hans does when wrapping the hackle, you will see him rolling the hackle tool he uses as he is wrapping. This "roll" takes the twist out of the hackle as he goes around the hook shank and helps you to keep the hackle pointing towards the back of the hook like you want it. The hackle tool he uses, which I also prefer, makes it easy to "roll" the hackle around the hook to keep the twist out.
Just thought I would throw this out there and hope it makes sense......
When I watch a tying video, I am watching more on how a person uses the tools and I learn a lot about tying that way.
Hi Warren,
I did exactly as you have suggested before I read this! But I do know who is the smarter one here is, not me!:D I have successfully, at least better, done some soft hackle flies. If I'm not afraid of getting this server in trouble for indecent photography, I'll try posting some before I take off for a few days. But, I do think, again many thanks to everyone, that I'm getting it. The last 6 or so flies look much better than the first 12!
Mike