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Okay...I will be tying mostly size 12 and 14 dries with some 10s and 16s. I will be tying parachutes in mainly 14 and 16 with a few 12s and 18s so I figured to go one size bigger. What would you buy? A saddle or a cape. I am not sure becuase I don't wanna have extra hackles that are either too big or too small. BTW I am thinking of buying a 1/2 Gold saddle if the saddle is the right choice...is this a good idea?
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You may be hard pressed to find many 12s or 14s on a Whiting gold saddle. The ones I have are mostly 16s. I have gone to 100 packs to get those sizes. You might try Conranch.
Jay
Mike. In general I like capes for traditional hackled flies and for parachutes saddle hackle. Jay is right about finding saddle hackle that large. I'm tying 50 dozen parachutes right now and have been pulling from 3 different saddles to try and get enough for 15 dozen 10's and 20 dozen 12's. Mind you these were ordered on the large side. The most common size I'm finding is 14.I'm using Whiting Farms.
Capes have a better selection of hackle sizes. Again 10's and 12's are tuff, but a lot more plentiful than on saddles .
You get a wider size variety with capes as compared to saddles but you might get lucky with a saddle, but I wouldn't count on any 10's if you want 18's and vise a versa. What flies are you tying?
RW here,
Totally agree with Jim Slattery on the cape instead of the saddle if you want a bigger variety of sizes.
Later, RW
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"We fish for pleasure; I for mine, you for yours." -James Leisenring on fishing the wet fly-
Mike;
Jim?s advice is right on the money. You really need both to cover a wide range of flies. What I try to do is set a monthly budget for spending on fly tying supplies. I generally go for the mid range on feathers and for hooks as well. I?ve yet to have a fish break a hook and I don?t cry as much when I pop a fly off casting or tangle in the brush. That?s the stuff I use for my own flies, if I?m tying for someone else, the story changes. A customer gets the best (heck he paid for it) for one big reason, I get the leftovers. Buying a cape or saddle a month will give you a nice supply in less than a years time.
Do I stick to a budget? HECK NO! But you need to know, I live alone, and some times my cat is eating better than I am. LOL I guess it all hinges on where your priorities are.
Jim
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If the women don't find you handsome:
They should at least find you handy
I find that on the Whiting Saddles you can normally get 3 sizes of hackle from one saddle. I also agree with using saddles on parachutes makes them go much faster and easier as you do not need hackle pliers until the end of the saddle. About 5 or 6 flies to one use of the pliers. Think about the 100 packs as with the sizes you are talking about it will be cheaper for you to buy a few packs of them than a whole or half saddle and you will get the sizes you will need. 100 flies out of a pack is more flies than most tiers tie in several months of tying. Might be a good way for you to go?
I have never understood why people say to go one size larger on Parachutes?? I will post this again.
For doing a given size of parachute Tie the post on the hook you want to use right were it normally goes. Stand it up into position and whip finish your thread. All that is on the hooks is the post but you can also put the tail on if you like even the body. Just so the post is standing. Now take a saddle or any hackle and wrap it one time around that post and if the hackle hits right were the tail and body meet on the back of the hook shank you have the perfect size of hackle for a parachute.It can be a little one way or the other and the fish won't care a bit. When you are done sizing your hackle for the flies that you are going to tie just finish the fly that is in your vise. It is that easy. Hope that helped a little. Ron
Mike... I have too many feathers now, but until then this is what I did and it might help you:
1) Buy Metz saddles (about $15). These covered my needs in the 10-16 range, though as I recall the 10s and 16s were limited... but if are tying just for yourself they should be ample. Plus these are good for woolly buggers, especially the feathers in the back of the saddle (underneath the smaller feathers)
2) By Whiting 100-packs to fill in the voids. I only tie down to about 20 and rarely fish that size, so the 100 packs in just a few colors in 16, 18, 20 seem to be enough... grizz, brown, and med. dun are all I have in these, I think.
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Peter F
www.fishingwithflies.com
pfrailey@hotmail.com
Mike , 100 packs are really good but they seem sized small for classic catskill ties. For parachutes the size is o.k., but you might want to check it.
Jim
Hey Mike,
I think that the advice given here is really good. Gradually acquiring capes and saddles is a good way to build your tying stock. I believe that Whiting 100's are a great way to go for a new tyer who has yet to build up a reserve of hackles. $11 dollars gets you tying that particular size and color. It's also a good way for the old guys like me to to replace hackle when well-used capes are stripped bare of all the #14 or #16 hackles. BTW, most of the Whiting 100's I have used do have a couple of different hackle sizes in them. 8T
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You had better learn to be a happy camper. You only get one try at this campground and it's a real short camping season.
I have bought plenty of capes/saddle before and I am not much of a beginner tier...I have been especially lucky in getting free 100s packs. I am just wondering becuase usually with capes I have quite a few feathers I don't use. I will probably go with a saddle but mainly I wanted to know if a 1/2 saddle is good or to just buy the whole thing. The reason I want (roughly) one size bigger is becuase I use long shank dry fly hooks. Also I don't like buying 100s becuase I find they are a bit expensive per fly and I tie a lot of flies.
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"GET THE DRIFT?"
[This message has been edited by Mike Murgida (edited 18 March 2005).]
Collins Hackle raises his birds to have just the sizes you need. I talked to him at a show this year and that is what he told me. Good prices too.
Thanks for adding the "Rest of the Story" It is real hard for people to answer a question when someone dosen't tell everything up front.
If you tie a lot of flies buy the whole saddle. You sure can't lose anything by doing so. If you buy it and you figure you have to much post here and see if someone will trade you for half or quarter of another color. Hackle never goes to waste unless the bugs get it.
I am just guessing here but a half of a whiting saddle will tie in the neighbor hood of 1200 flies. That is just a guess on my part but I bet it is short. You tie that much? If so buy the whole saddle.
You can still size your hackle the same way as I gave above no matter the length of the shank of the hook. Ron
Hi Mike.....yea, you kinda left that "1/2 or whole?" thing out of your original post. So if you are considering a whole saddle, why not get a 1/2 cape and 1/2 saddle? Best of both worlds. As Ron said, whatever you don't use you can sell or trade for other stuff. I'm sure there are lots of midge tyers that would love to buy just the top of the cape with all the tiny hackles on it. Have fun whatever you decide!.....Jason
[This message has been edited by Feenom (edited 18 March 2005).]
The other 1/2 of the story got left out becuase I had to go to bed...it was almost 10 p.m. on the east coast when I posted and I have to wake up at 6:30 to go to school. I am probably gonna need atleast like 400 flies from this saddle...could I get that from a 1/2...I have never bought a 1/2 before.
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If folks have in between sizes they don't use or need I'm on a TIGHT budget do to workers comp cutting my disabilty back off. I'll pay for all anyone doesn't want.Even if I have to write you an IOU. Matt
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To each there own !
Mike- Yes with ease. Ron
Ron...I meant about 400 flies for this summer...it would be nice to have some more. How many flies do you think a 1/2 Gold could tie?
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[This message has been edited by Mike Murgida (edited 19 March 2005).]
Sorry Mike, I didn't realize that you have done some tying. No offense intended. Reading over your initial post, reminded my of one more piece of advice I would like to pass on. My mail order supplier has told me a couple of times not to waste my money on Gold grade capes or saddle. He has suggested buying the Silver grade or even Bronze when I have asked him about the "most bang for the buck." 8T
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You had better learn to be a happy camper. You only get one try at this campground and it's a real short camping season.
Hi Mike,
According to the back of one of my Whiting Saddles, It states that a full Bronze will tie a minimum of 500, Silver - 800, Gold - 1,100, and a Platinum - 1,500 flies.
RonMT, You stated that you could never understand why people go one size larger for parachutes. I did an experiment several years ago and the longer hackled parachutes caught way more fish than the shorter hackled version in every case. Fish also like longer rubber legs on patterns like Turck's Tarantula's. They like longer CDC on patterns like the CDC and Elk. I don't tie any parachute hackle shorter than at least to the bend of the hook and then some.
Regards,
Mark
Mark while I might agree with you on rubber legs I can not agree with the other flies. That is just my opinion after almost 40 years of guiding in Idaho and Montana on some of the toughest spring creeks and tailwaters in the country. And yes I have used larger hackle on parachute flies. I think it is more a matter of how you present the fly than how long the hackle is. I also think a hackle sized properly makes a parachute fly look much better. But everything we as fishermen do is what "WE PRESEVE" as an individual. So to each there own. http://www.flyanglersonline.com/bb/wink.gif Ron
Hi Mike, what fly are you tying that you'll need all this hackle for?
Get a full gold saddle if you think your going to tie 1000 flies in the size range of the saddle. Thats .065 cents per fly for a full saddle and .069 cents per for a half.
Take care, Jim
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[url=http://www.Jimsflyco.com:717af]www.Jimsflyco.com[/url:717af]
I will be tying mostly Klinkhamers and Oliver Edwards' styled paraduns.
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"GET THE DRIFT?"