Hotspotting ...

... is a term that came up on a thread on the Fishing Reports Forum.

It was used in reference to simply identifying by name a 50 mile long river that is well known in Western Montana ( and probably Northern Idaho ) and is featured on a prominent website on angling in Montana - www.bigskyfishing.com.

The few times I have seen the term used, hotspotting has refered to a particular place or stretch of a stream or river - like the second bend below Harry's place or the run just downstream of mile marker 18 or the hole below Big Joe Bend, or something like that. So I was surprised to see it used as described above.

Curious how you use the term and what you mean when you do ??

John

Personally, I never get more specific than a waterbody name, and that only if it's a VERY well known waterbody. In order words, if I can expect to go there and see a crowd, then I don't mind naming it publicly.

So, for example, if I was fishing the lower Shoshone, I'd tell people I was fishing the lower Shoshone, because I know there's already going to be 3-4 other cars in the parking lot when I fish there. I wouldn't publicize that I was fishing at XXX Access Point.

Even if it's a river that's somewhat well publicized, but I can fish it without feeling crowded, I won't mention it.

So, for instance, if it was a moderately popular river in Alberta, I'll say I was in Canadaland, but I wouldn't tell people that I was fishing the XXX River.

If it's somewhere that I rarely see other anglers, the most specific I'll get is usually a state. In fact, I'll go out of my way to attempt to be discrete. I'll try to avoid showing landmarks that could be recognized on Google Earth, etc. Considering 99% of my fishing occurs in the latter 2 categories... yeah, I pretty much never tell people when I'm fishing.

One of my favorite streams is hidden a long ways from anything in Wyoming. The fishing is good, the scenery is great, and on the most crowded day I've ever seen, I saw a footprint. The fact that I can have the whole river to myself, and be surrounded by nothing but nature (moose, elk, deer, still haven't seen a bear) is what makes it special. In this day and age of easy mass communication, I know it won't last forever, but right now it's really special, and I selfishly want to keep it that way. There was a time when places like the Madison River were like that. Now, I have very little interest in going there - fishing around crowds like that just isn't my cup of tea. So if I can preserve a few more special places for a few more years by not publicizing them, I'm going to do my part.

Now, that being said, I will TAKE certain people to these places, but not just anybody. And one of the first things I do is beg them not to publicize it - because it's the remoteness and the solitude that makes them unique.

The term is used quite a bit around here in the driftless area of the midwest. It seems to mainly be used when locations are shared through public internet forums and web pages and available to perhaps hundreds of lurkers. There are no "secret" places anymore (and, in fact, all of our streams are identified in a booklet published by the DNR), but the streams are pretty small and consequently probably can't take as much pressure as a bigger western freestone stream. You cretainly don't want to be following another angler as they'll likely disturb the water enough to limit your success. So it's pretty commonplace around here to not name stream names in public fishing reports. If you were to name streams and do so a public forum / web page, some people around here would consider that hot spotting and inappropriate. People share more specific information in private individual communications.

I generally name a stream, but not the location unless its to reference a well-known, nearby easy access point.

I've never used that term, but I grit my teeth whenever any of my favorite spots show up in other posts. And it doesn't have to be a "turn at this sign and drive X miles and pull over by the big tree". For instance, most of the photos of trout you post from the Lochsa have enough background in them that I can tell what pool you are standing in, and in some cases, what rock. Not a big deal since I am 900 miles away, but there are places on that river I gave up fishing because everyone said "go to this hole and fish", and there is ALWAYS someone in that spot. Then again, I can't see the attraction of standing in the same spot all day, or day after day, and recatching the same fish, either.

I learned long ago the best way to have a river become crowded was to advertise how good the fishing was, and to tell people where and how to fish it, so I don't do that any more. I take pics of fish, yes, and say I was in a particular river, but I try real hard to not have any identifiers in the photo (although I have had people ID a spot from a single rock in the water), and I don't get detailed about how I caught em. Most of the time. If someone wants to know, they can always ask, but I am under no obligation to give up hard-earned info to people not willing to put forth their own efforts.

I guess I am pretty easy going on this. Coming to Denver? Fish the South Platte in Cheesman Canyon or downstream a bit around Deckers. Or hit the Colorado between Hot Sulfur Springs and Kremmling.

But I have some small mountain streams that I only share with out of state visitors. They can't take the pressure the big rivers can take.

I thought this was going to be a thread about tying a bright spot into a fly!!!??:oops:

Tig, if you add a little red to the throat area on a fly that could be a form of hotspotting. :) Actually, more in tune with the thread, I have always been very open about where I fish. I don't own the water, it is there for everyone to enjoy. If I can make it so someone else has a great experience when fishing, so much the better. Larry ---sagefisher---

You can't hotspot an already hotspot.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y18.../13parking.jpg

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Originally Posted by Silver Creek

You can't hotspot an already hotspot.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y18.../13parking.jpg

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Yikes!! I'm headin' down that long lonesome highway!

The term hotspot around here has a totally different meaning. Hotspot is a place where all the "summer guides" take their clients and if you get in their way they get very hot (since they own the river or so they think). It is also a gas station around here where most baiters buy their worms and beer to leave along the side of the river or lake for us to pick up. lol

I wouldn't consider posting a picture hotspotting unless it shows clearly the mile marker or something like that in the background. If you can recognize a place by the background of the picture then you already know the river rather well and aren't learning anything new. John Scott's posts aren't what I consider "hotspotting" or "burning" a spot, they show what types of water he fishes, not giving directions to which rock to stand on or talking about some small stream that can't handle a lot of fishing pressure.

I know I don't normally post in here, but here's a warm-water Okie's point of view.....

Last year, I started posting some videos of me fishing some of my better spots. Fly, hardware, and bait (I don't discriminate). I know that other locals are watching my stuff, because I've been recognized and greeted by a few folks away from the water.

Now, the spots I've posted about are well-known "hotspots" for fishing. But, if I'm in a new area, and catching fish, I generally just take still pictures, with the fish on the ground, next to my foot. This keeps the background out of the shot, so I know some folks won't go and pillage the hole(s) I've found holding fish.

I know a few well-respected guides here in Northeast Oklahoma that will post pictures of clients with nice fish, but they photoshop the background out. If they didn't do this, they would have 20 more boats pot-licking the fishing grounds within a day or two.

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Originally Posted by JohnScott

Nicely put, Larry.

I think there is a regional component to how folks view "hotspotting" as well as the personality traits thing.

The further West someone is from, the more likely he / she is to share information. The further East someone is from, the less likely he / she is to share information.

Some folks are generous to a fault and some are selfish to a fault.

John

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Really? Please explain your logic as to why the far Western fisherman/fisherwoman is more likely to share a hotspot than we selfish-to-a-fault Easterners?

Thanks.

Bob

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Originally Posted by bobbyg

Yikes!! I'm headin' down that long lonesome highway!

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Bob, might that be along the Madison?

Bob, That was an interesting observation by John, regarding the possibility that people tend to be more open to releasing fishing data the farther west you go as compared to the farther east you go. I hadn't thought of it in that way and naturally there will be tons of exemptions to that statement, but.......... There are around 3.3 times the people who live 'east' of the west as compared to those living in the west. Depending upon where you draw the line and leaving out the dead center of the country, there are around 62.7 million people living out west. Compare that to 207.7 million back east. BIG difference. Then if you factored in, which I did not, the number of square miles of the 'east' as compared to the 'west' I am sure the population per square mile would have an even bigger X factor. So, if you live in a very high level population area with very limited fly fishing waters as compared to those of us who live out west, much lower levels of population and much greater number of square miles per person, that may tend to make the crowded side a little more reluctant to give out information. Just a guess on my part however. No real facts to back that up. :) Larry ---sagefisher---

old Chinese proverb, those who know don't say and those who say don't know....as we say here in the EAST

This has been an interesting posting. We are all entitled to our own opinions.
Let us all be careful as to what we post. It looks as if this just might get out of hand.
PLEASE Gang, lighten up. I do not want to shut it down and or hand out warnings.
If the shoe fits, so be it.
Lets just go fishin.

Denny

My point after jumping into all this mess, was you cannot tell anyone anything like you could in the old days, with a simple nod everything was accepted to be kept on the down low. There is a whole new generaton of fishers out there ,in my opinion would would fish in your grave if it held a pod of fish. One case in point that stands out , I have had a "friend' of mine , while I was with a client, and we wre casting to rising fish, doing very well. this "friend" recognizes me, enters on the opposite bank and nymphs the same pod we are c&ring from. I bit my tounge hard enough to make it bleed . stuff like this is why I walked away from the indie and only go where few are willing to put forth the effort to get to. There are simply too many people vying for the same fish here in the east as it was put earlier, and as I age I am more and more un willing to exchange info on where I have been. I show trusted old friends who I have formed concrete relationships with over the years and that's about it. Fly patterns I give away freely but that is another long winded story,i want people to catch fish , just not over my shoulder.

I got it. when I come out west, I get the freedom I seek, room to breathe and room to cast on these famous rivers of the west. It is wide open compared to what we have here in the east. The only grumbling I have ever heard would be when I have been in the company of a guide and he would mention that it is crowded today, namely on the Bighorn.

Regarding hot spotting, look at the photo below from a blog. It was one of the largest trout taken in this river in 2007.


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y18...0-28-08-RS.jpg

Now look at my photo below. Check out the group of mountains in the background and compare with the photo above. I know exactly where this spot is.

But you will note on the left side of my photo, a parking lot full of cars. So this is no secret spot. There are people fishing this stretch every day of the season. You can't hot spot a hot spot.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y18...keupstream.jpg

I'm on an ice fishing forum when the water gets hard up here in Maine. Most people call it "spot burning" around here, early in the season good ice is a secret for some and sometimes just the bold depending on one's idea of safe ice. But it is a point of contention among some anglers when someone tells others publicly that they caught some nice trout be it open water or hard water. I've been burned before, had a nice little pond that you had to hike into. Me and a couple friends caught many a nice trout there while going to college, and I go back at least once a year. But one year we took a new freshman out to the pond explicitly telling him that it was a relatively unknown and un-utilized trout pond, proceeded to catch fish all day steady. I graduated that year and went back the next year come to find out from some mutual friends that the freshman had a big mouth and took quite a few people into that pond and since then haven't caught nearly as many nor as large fish, and had to bring out plenty of others trash. So I can see how spot burning bothers some people a lot, but when someone is complaining because some guy caught a big salmon on a large lake that has guys in boats on it trolling everyday, is telling people to fish it, I don't really consider that spot burning, as people are fishing it in large number anyway. I caught a big brown out of a local lake a couple weeks ago in my canoe and told plenty of people about it, but plenty of people were already fishing that lake. Kind of funny to see all the guys trolling out there in their big boats and me in a one man canoe haul that thing in, got a lot of stares, and I'm sure many of those guys watching me catch that fish "Spot burned" Lake George in Canaan, and it might of had a few extra boats on the water that weekend.

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Originally Posted by JohnScott

Nicely put, Larry.

I think there is a regional component to how folks view "hotspotting" as well as the personality traits thing.

The further West someone is from, the more likely he / she is to share information. The further East someone is from, the less likely he / she is to share information.

Some folks are generous to a fault and some are selfish to a fault.

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Well put John.

I personally do not mind sharing where I fish (maybe not the exact spot) but I have no problems sharing streams.

My son, unfortuneatly doesn't share my views on this. That could be because he, as an aquatic wildlife biologist, has access to data/reports most of us never see.

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Originally Posted by JohnScott

... a couple days ago while reading stuff on one of my favorite websites - www.westfly.com, which is a major Western fly anlging site.

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Thanks for that link John ... I signed up and really appreciate the fly pattern "Rockworm" as I can see using that on Rock Creek and a couple others in the area.

That is a very good statement from Westfly. Although I have not seen such a statement on local BB is visit, along with several other FAOL members, I know some of the local guys get their panties in a wad if too much info is given about a mountain stream. Info on the Chattahoochee River, which is the place I fish for trout most frequently, is readily available, although it has over 2 million residents within a short drive in an automobile.