Do fish feel pain?

I'm thankful (most times) for a wife who has a tender spirit and heart.

Unfortuneatly this woman doesn't fish, and comments like, "Poor fish, I can't understand why you guys hook the fish and the pain from the hook make it fight and then turn it loose".

She raised two boys who fly fish (one who has earned a doctorate and is an Aquatic Wildlife Biologist) and now three grandsons who love to fish and one will be migrating to fly fishing shortly as he's old enough.

This will be in her inbox when she awakens to greet the new day as she goes to watch two of the boys today and they grab their fishin' poles and go out the backdoor to the lake after bass and perch.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/9797948/Fish-cannot-feel-pain-say-scientists.html

Excellent article but, certainly not conclusive as the RSPCA spokesperson stated. However, the article points out the difference between pain as experienced by humans and response to negative stimuli as part of a survival tactic. I think I would find myself supporting the latter. I have caught the same fish in a few minutes on the same fly. Bluegills and greens are not even Pavlovian enough to avoid negative stimuli. Of course, the animal rights folks might say this is a feeding urge overcoming a safety need (which takes us to Maslow). Anthropomorphizing is a dangerous thing to do when dealing with wildlife.

I would say if fish felt pain in the common understanding of pain as humans, they would starve to death given the diversity of their forage choices. Much of which is consumed whole and nearly all of which possess some form of defense, pinch, poke, sting, impale just to name a few.

And if it really bothered me one way or another, I suppose I would become vegan. But I like meat too much to do that.

And I love the response from son #2 who does/participates/reads this type of study when I asked how to prove something like this and he said,

"I'm not sure. I know there's been debate over whether (for example) lobsters can feel pain. It's not easy to measure, because many responses may simply reflect responses to unusual stimuli, not necessarily pain".

The subject reminds me of the time we were under attack from P.E.T.A.

Where was that place the fly fisherman were accosted either going into or coming out of the river ...?

Okay. If no one will say it, I will and I'll follow-up with a secondary question: "Do we really care? And, just in case some of us did, would we stop fishing?"

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Originally Posted by DaleW

The subject reminds me of the time we were under attack from P.E.T.A.

Where was that place the fly fisherman were accosted either going into or coming out of the river ...?

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That's why I do still lofe the fact the CA DFG allows for open or concealed carry while fishing

Allen, It's easier to condemn 'catch and release' than it is to defend it. If you look at it from a simply logical viewpoint, what we are doing is sticking a sharp hook into an animals mouth area. The hook is attached to a line that allows us to pull on the fish, causing it to struggle to survive. It can't 'know' it's going to be released. Whether or not the fish 'feels' pain or not, we are certainly placing it under duress and some kind of stress. Since some fish do not survive the experience, you can't say its a practice that is 'harmless' to the fish. Some could call it torture'. It is certainly a cruel thing to do. We don't even have the 'excuse' of food gathering to fall back on. We are doing this ONLY for our own enjoyment. If you did this to a cat or dog, or even a squirrel, you would be arrested. That being said, if it is a cruelty to this, in the grand scheme of life, if this is cruelest thing we do, then I'm okay with it. Humans do so many awful things that this is pretty minor in comparison.

AMEN brother!

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Originally Posted by Buddy Sanders

Allen, It's easier to condemn 'catch and release' than it is to defend it. If you look at it from a simply logical viewpoint, what we are doing is sticking a sharp hook into an animals mouth area. The hook is attached to a line that allows us to pull on the fish, causing it to struggle to survive. It can't 'know' it's going to be released. Whether or not the fish 'feels' pain or not, we are certainly placing it under duress and some kind of stress. Since some fish do not survive the experience, you can't say its a practice that is 'harmless' to the fish. Some could call it torture'. It is certainly a cruel thing to do. We don't even have the 'excuse' of food gathering to fall back on. We are doing this ONLY for our own enjoyment. If you did this to a cat or dog, or even a squirrel, you would be arrested. That being said, if it is a cruelty to this, in the grand scheme of life, if this is cruelest thing we do, then I'm okay with it. Humans do so many awful things that this is pretty minor in comparison.

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Gee, where did I "condemn 'catch and release'" much less even mention it because I didn't! Said it before and (over the years this is an old topic. Most everyone has concurred) I'll say it again: Fishing is a 'Blood Sport' and fish will die. Do they feel the pain of a needle sharp hook? Not sure and don't care. Neither do probably 99% of the fly fishers here and the same percentage of fishermen world over, whether we fish for sport, sustenance, or a commercial livelihood. If we did, we wouldn't fish.

Allan

Fish do not 'feel pain' like higher animals do. Their brains are not set up with that type of nervous system (fish are the most primitive form of vertebrates, and were the first to evolve). Other than appearance and a few minor adaptions, they have changed little since the Cambrian Period (530 million years ago). They are not even conscious, little more than organic robots, really. When they struggle on a line, they are merely reacting instinctively, rather than from any deliberate sensations. A fishes nervous system does not even contain any specialized pain receptor nerve cells, like many higher animals do.

Compared to what happens to fish in the wild, on a daily basis (being eaten, and digested alive, torn to pieces, or used as a host for parasites....), being stuck with a hook is pretty small potatoes.

Allan. I was just giving an answer to your question about whether we 'care' or not about fish feeling pain. Didn't accuse you of anything. My apologies if I was misunderstood.

Buddy,

LOL - I misunderstand a lot of things - Just ask my wife, LOL.

Allan