HAVE WE LOST OUR WAY? - Neil - Jan 16, 2012

HAVE WE LOST OUR WAY?


I have recently spent some time checking out the latest and greatest new rods, reels, lines and various other "must have items" that were presented at the latest Fly Tackle Dealers Show. Then we received an article from Warren Patterson "Are We Making Fly-fishing Too Difficult?" [FAOL ? October 10, 2011] Warren asked an excellent question, "How much do we really need to know about the 'technical' side of fly fishing before we can start doing it? My follow-up question is: "Have We Lost Our Way?"

Thank goodness I don't know any of the people that Neil is talking about. All the fishermen that I know would probably pass his benchmark. As for technical, Neil's friend JC was a ground breaker in many of the technical aspects of our age. Just go back and look at his aquarium project and his early work on flylines with the founders of SA. And the very soul of fly fishing leads us away from black line, cane poles, and a few feathers on a bone hook.

I have great respect for those who love bamboo and silk. It's kinda like waxed cotton and cuban cigars. I own and use them too and really appreciate the nostalgia. But remember, even these were eons beyond cane poles and horse hare.

I also appreciate the mavents of the technical side of our sport. Were it not for graphite and weight forward lines, fishing for reds and snook would be a much greater challenge. Can't see doing that with a cane pole.

So there are many facets to this sport. And because you don't like the way others are doing it, doesn't mean they are wrong. And it doesn't mean you can't still tie a black line to the end of a cane pole and fish the way it has been done by farm boys for eons. Enjoy! There is pleanty of room for all.

Godspeed,

Bob

Nice article, but I disagree with most of it. Take the last quote:

"The sport of angling used to be a genteel business, at least in the world of ideals, a world of ladies and gentlemen. These have been replaced by a new set of paradigms: the bum, the addict, and the maniac. I'm afraid that this says much about the times we live in. The fisherman now is one who defies society who rips lips, who drains the pool, who takes no prisoners, who is not to be confused with the sissy with the creel and the bamboo rod. Granted he releases that which he catches, but in some cases, he strips the quarry of its perilous soul before tossing it back in the water. What was once a trout – cold, hard, spotted, and beautiful – becomes number seven."

The first sentence starts out lamenting that angling was once the realm the wealthy, privelaged class "the genteel...a world of ladies and gentlemen", but now is enjoyed by the unwashed masses "the bum, the addict and the maniac". I would say these describe those that are passionate about the sport. He goes on with his lament to that "the fisherman is now one who defies society... who takes no prisoners", while the truth is the most anglers have the utmost respect for the resource. It is the modern angler that stand in the way of the destruction of streams. While he grants that "he releases what he catches" he twists that into a perverted act. Nevermind that in the time he misses most of the catch was quickly dispatched with a priest. Catch and release was actually popularized by the country bumpkins who entered bass fishing tournaments (gasp!).

You are more than welcome to fish your bamboo and wear a tweed coat, but I will take the progress myself.

I think that you have missed the intent of this article. I wasn't lamenting technology, my old friend JC and I were right in the middle of the technological revolution that brought fly fishing back from the brink of extinction. It was JC and me that caught the bugs and placed them in those aquariums, we both worked with the folks at SA, we both taught fly casting, fly tying and experimented with different fly patterns based on the things we learned from photographing insects in the slant tank. However, both JC and I grew up hunting and fishing, and our knowledge and expertise grew out of those formative years. I lament the fact that many of the people I meet today did not come up that way, and I think it shows.
In addition, I don't lament the days when angling was the realm of the wealthy and privileged class. I was born on a dairy farm in upstate New York and its unlikely that my parents every earned more than a couple thousand dollars in a good year. I was hardly the product of the 'wealthy and privileged class', and my work with JC and SA were part of a concerted effort to make fly fishing available to everyone. However, and perhaps its only my opinion, but I've encountered a great deal of coarseness in the current crop of anglers. I live in one of the premier fresh water fly fishing areas in the country,and I've witnessed a change in the attitude in many of the anglers that I see on our local waters. I doubt that there were many individuals that were more passionate about the sport than Vince Marinaro, Ernest Schwiebert, Gary LaFontaine, or Jim Birkholm. They were, in a word, part of that world of 'the genteel - a world of ladies and gentlemen.

I have yet to catch a fish, tie a fly, or anything else via the Internet. It's just another way to access information, entertainment, and communicate with other people.

Folks who believe they can buy their way into the privileged class always wax nostalgic about the "good ole' days" when only the privileged had leisure time and money sufficient to create a "lifestyle," and miss the days when little poor boys did all the real work of hunting and fishing for them for next to nothing so they could take the game home to their starving families.

On the other hand, I abhor those freaking click-counters and refuse to fish with anyone who uses one. And I have to agree with NT about the general lack of manners and what he calls "coarseness" among today's anglers. But I see that in every aspect of American society.

...."Now being somewhat of a naturalist I had a grasp of entomology and I could at least tell a mayfly from a caddis. Everything else was pretty much Greek to me. However, since I had a firm foundation of fishing with bait and lures before I started seriously fly fishing it was not a real big stretch to start fishing with flies."....

The main takeaway for me, and one that I feel is at the crux of the issue is highighted above. If we have lost our way, it's not because flyfisherman are not of the same social stature. It's because far too many of them have little if any background in the outdoors. If you have no idea how to first even "catch a fish" then you lose something in the pursuit of flyfishing. Too often folks go from a 3-piece suit to flyfishing, and think that because they bought their setup from a pro at Orvis or LL Bean, that they somehow have "arrived".

It was stated to me by a family member years ago. He said...."I guarantee you, the person with the most expensive clothes and rifle and never shoots a deer, never stalked squirrels with a .22 either."

His statement says alot about flyfishing as well. I don't think we have lost our way.....I think too many folks flyfishing these days never even knew "the way" to begin with. :)

"I think that you have missed the intent of this article"

I think most have or will miss the intent of your article and that is a shame. I understand the intent of it and think it was well written and I agree with it. I feel many need to read it over several times before making any comments on it.

Just my thoughts and feelings and nothing more.....

Neil:
Excellent article! We have lost our connection with nature and the natural world. On the other hand technology is something we (the less skilled and uninitiated) need in order to survive in this now unfamiliar world. We would freeze without polyester and never get back without GPS. As for the genteel, I'm not so sure that is a "class" of people as much as people with "class". We all bitterly complain about the abusers. They are no ladies or gentlemen.

I didn't miss the point of the article....I agree with the article. I was just adding another prespective in support.

Admittedly I'm not in alignment 100% with Mr. McGuane. I agree that there are elements on the extreme that are as he states, seen them, but I am not so sure that it is the main problem within the sports identity. I feel the true loss of identity is in the fact that too many are detached from the natural world "except" for the fact that they fly fish.

Likewise, I have to admit, that if this were still a sport only of the "Tweed set"....I most likely would not be associated with it. My corporate attire doesn't even include a tie, and if it's not made in denim, or come in a "hoodie" or ballcap....I probably don't own it. LOL While I have enjoyed a lifelong love for the outdoors and the places that trout inhabit....I am far from "Genteel". And the closest I get to tweed....is an affinity for Guiness. :)

Sometimes, it pays to read the posts and details of where the poster lives, etc. when trying to comprehend their reply. Dunfly lives in a gulf coast town in FL known for it's excellent middle-class, small town lifestyle. But most coastal towns in FL see their fair share of ostentatious displays of wealth, European and Latin American style class-consciousness, etc. For example, I was standing outside Cracker Barrel a few nights ago near Ocala waiting for the 3 ladies I was traveling with to exit and checking directions on my smart phone when this British lady got out of a high-end SUV driven by a man about my age and asked if I worked for CB. I obviously didn't, but just said no almost without making eye contact. Then she returned and asked if she could pay me to load two rocking chairs she had just bought into her SUV. In winter in FL, this sort of stuff is common. Here I am, a fellow tourist traveling and shopping/eating at CB and she has to insult me by trying to hire me as day labor because she can tell I'm an American.

You don't get a lot of that in MT or the desert SW. I've spent time in both places. In fact, I've never found anywhere else in the USA where working and middle class Americans can expect to be treated like crap on their own turf by tourists like they can in FL in Jan-Feb. when the Europeans, Canadians, and rich Yankees are in town. So Dunfly may have just been sensitive to the particular word choices that - to him - sounded classist. I can tell you that this is a bigger deal to fly anglers in FL, GA, SC than it is in the rest of the country. As a sub-culture, they work hard to be accepted as fishermen with no distinction from conventional tackle and bait fishermen. It's different here.

FG,

I was just in Savannah for the first time a few weeks ago. What a beautiful town. And full of some lovely, friendly people. It has to be a nice place to live.

All,
I went back and read Neil's article again. I am from the same waters that JC and LF started out in. Neil too, I think. I have never met any fly fisherman on any of those rivers I would take exception to. I guess I am just lucky because I know they are there somewhere. I did run into a rather obnoxious drop back fisherman in a boat on the Manistee. And one steelhead guide (out of dozens) I didn't like. But that is not what we are really talking about, is it?

The real trout fishermen of old are farm boys with cane poles. They probably didn't like the guy with the funny looking rod and reel in waders fishing their turf either. Point being, we don't own the stream. People are what people are and it changes with time and equipment. We can't make time go back no matter how we lament it. Might as well scream at the darkness.

There is no law that we have to buy graphite because it is there. We can still use waxed cotton instead of gortex. We don't have to use breathable waders. We don't have to use air cell plastic flylines. We can still buy single malt scotch. Cuban cigares are a problem though.

Relax. There is always room for someone who doesn't fish the way you think it should be done. As long as he doesn't break the law or intentionally violate your space, let him have his due.

Godspeed,

Bob

Bob,

I think that's an excellent point. I wish I encountered more people like this on the saltwater, but I don't. Amazingly, with far more water to fish, jet ski, sail, putter around in power boats, etc., they somehow seem attracted to the notion of invading each other's space, engaging in reckless conduct, and exhibiting the most unsportsmanlike behavior imaginable. I am not exaggerating when I say fishermen mourn the deaths of friends almost every year who were killed when some other fishing boat "buzzed" them, ran over them at anchor/wading/in a kayak, or because jet skiers collided with them.

I've been out on weekdays when there was not another boat on the horizon for many miles and then I've heard the feint, broken drone of a jet ski in the distance growing louder for several minutes as the idiot made a bee-line across miles of water to get to where I and a friend were fishing so he could cut donuts around the boat and the little spoil island where we were fishing. In similar situations, I've had motor boats pull up next to us and beach on a spoil island while we were fishing the shallows around one, get out to drop a couple of beach chairs and do some sunbathing. There are countless similar spoil islands all over the place within minutes of each other. Most never have anyone on them. A few days ago, I was wade fishing a shallow grass flat the last 30 minutes before sunset alone in a secluded cove of a state park I had paid to enter. A guy in a runabout with a girl on board puts in not 30 ft from me and drops anchor, laughs and says to his girl, "Well, now that we scared all the fish he'll be leaving." They proceed to break out some wine and snacks to watch the sunset as a reel up and walk off. These are mild accounts!

This is the reality of fly fishing in salt water when you just want to fish for a few hours close to home...so to speak. You learn to live with it. Of course, you can get away from the crowds for the more serious adventures. That's why this sort of stuff doesn't (or shouldn't) happen during guided trips. But I learned my lesson last year about not carrying a concealed weapon on the water. That's how bad it actually does get when you're fishing near enough to the ramp to get in and out in a few hours or doing some walk-in fishing at a park.

Have we "lost our way?" You bet! But don't blame the Internet or graphite fly rods and PVC coated fly lines. We've lost our way as an entire society.

I second, or third or fourth that comment as well. "We've lost our way as an entire society." I didn't ever expect it see it in my lifetime. Surprise!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by flyguy66

Have we "lost our way?" You bet! But don't blame the Internet or graphite fly rods and PVC coated fly lines. We've lost our way as an entire society.

---

FG,

My heart goes out to you. It is a shame that there are people like that out there. I consider myself fortunate not to have run into very many of them. I fish salt too. Not where you are but in other places. Maybe I am a romantic but I continue to have faith in human beings. I will cling to the notion that for every a h out there there are hundreds of good people - maybe even thousands. I hope you won't let your sample embitter you to that notion.

But we did get off topic, didn't we? We were talking about the influence of technology on our sport. I would like to focus on a technology that has added greatly to fly fishing. That being the forum that JC and LF were so kind to put together for us. The one we are using right now. It is, no less, an example of technology no different in concept from graphite rods and weight forward lines. When we want to damn technology, we must be careful not to throw out the baby with the bath water. I think, like your human fishing partners, you can pick and choose those technologies you consider beneficial to your situation and be mindful that others will have an entire different set of rules, no better or lesser than our own.

Godspeed,

Bob

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NJTroutbum

...."Now being somewhat of a naturalist I had a grasp of entomology and I could at least tell a mayfly from a caddis. Everything else was pretty much Greek to me. However, since I had a firm foundation of fishing with bait and lures before I started seriously fly fishing it was not a real big stretch to start fishing with flies."....

The main takeaway for me, and one that I feel is at the crux of the issue is highighted above. If we have lost our way, it's not because flyfisherman are not of the same social stature. It's because far too many of them have little if any background in the outdoors. If you have no idea how to first even "catch a fish" then you lose something in the pursuit of flyfishing. Too often folks go from a 3-piece suit to flyfishing, and think that because they bought their setup from a pro at Orvis or LL Bean, that they somehow have "arrived".

It was stated to me by a family member years ago. He said...."I guarantee you, the person with the most expensive clothes and rifle and never shoots a deer, never stalked squirrels with a .22 either."

His statement says alot about flyfishing as well. I don't think we have lost our way.....I think too many folks flyfishing these days never even knew "the way" to begin with. :)

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by flyguy66

Bob,

I think that's an excellent point. I wish I encountered more people like this on the saltwater, but I don't. Amazingly, with far more water to fish, jet ski, sail, putter around in power boats, etc., they somehow seem attracted to the notion of invading each other's space, engaging in reckless conduct, and exhibiting the most unsportsmanlike behavior imaginable. I am not exaggerating when I say fishermen mourn the deaths of friends almost every year who were killed when some other fishing boat "buzzed" them, ran over them at anchor/wading/in a kayak, or because jet skiers collided with them.

I've been out on weekdays when there was not another boat on the horizon for many miles and then I've heard the feint, broken drone of a jet ski in the distance growing louder for several minutes as the idiot made a bee-line across miles of water to get to where I and a friend were fishing so he could cut donuts around the boat and the little spoil island where we were fishing. In similar situations, I've had motor boats pull up next to us and beach on a spoil island while we were fishing the shallows around one, get out to drop a couple of beach chairs and do some sunbathing. There are countless similar spoil islands all over the place within minutes of each other. Most never have anyone on them. A few days ago, I was wade fishing a shallow grass flat the last 30 minutes before sunset alone in a secluded cove of a state park I had paid to enter. A guy in a runabout with a girl on board puts in not 30 ft from me and drops anchor, laughs and says to his girl, "Well, now that we scared all the fish he'll be leaving." They proceed to break out some wine and snacks to watch the sunset as a reel up and walk off. These are mild accounts!

This is the reality of fly fishing in salt water when you just want to fish for a few hours close to home...so to speak. You learn to live with it. Of course, you can get away from the crowds for the more serious adventures. That's why this sort of stuff doesn't (or shouldn't) happen during guided trips. But I learned my lesson last year about not carrying a concealed weapon on the water. That's how bad it actually does get when you're fishing near enough to the ramp to get in and out in a few hours or doing some walk-in fishing at a park.

Have we "lost our way?" You bet! But don't blame the Internet or graphite fly rods and PVC coated fly lines. We've lost our way as an entire society.

---

excellent posts guys!

Unlike Bob in Mich, I have largely lost my "faith" in human beings... my life experiences have shown me that people are AT LEAST as likely to be bone-headed as not.

Like Fly Guy, I have no concept of why people feel the need to intrude on fishing space... I've had uncounted experiences similar to what he described.

There are still may good people in Fly Fishing, but over the years their numbers have deminished...

Now most of the Fly Shops us fly anglers use to visit and purchase fly fishing gear, materials, and got good advise on our purchases have disappeared.... sign of the economy?

Just like everything else that was once made in the U.S.A., now it is built overseas....

Even the fly shops that still exist, no longer stock all the stuff we use to buy. They are holding on by their finger-nails...

Yes there are slob fly anglers, that go out and fish and fish some more...thinking that they are not hurting the level of fish in our waters by catching and releasing a 100 fish in one day on the water...

Then there are others who keep everything they catch to help feed their families through these hard times in America.

I speak the truth....I alway have....and I do not apologize for speaking the truth! ~Parnelli

Problems are out there....fortunately from my experiences they are not the norm. Most of the outdoorsman I meet, from hunters to warmwater gear fishermen,the hautiest of fly fishermenand all points in between, seem to be great people. Much better in my opinion than the same cross-section of the non-sportsmen oriented public.

I don' tlike crowds....so I avoid opening days. And I tend to try to fish "select" days during off hours to avoid them as well as much as possible. Because I know that if I fished opening day and only Saturday mornings....I would find far too much frustration. But that goes for crowds in general I think?

As a a flyfisherman I think you have to acknowledge up front, that there will always be the extreme end of the sport that includes the folks that hold themselves as part of "society"....and by being a "flyfisherman" they somehow place themselves in a station above the general "fisherman". They will never go away. So to fight it or chafe against it will only lead to a ruining of the sport for yourself. Likewise, you will have the rebels as in any pastime. Who fly fish but do it in an almost mocking state. But in between you have alot of great sportsmen IMO.

Nowadays.....when I great a fellow fly fisherman, and their first action is to look my floatant-stained waders up-and-down, then eye-up my rod and reel combo before even making eye contact in greeting.....I laugh. Sometimes out loud. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NJTroutbum

I don' tlike crowds....so I avoid opening days. And I tend to try to fish "select" days during off hours to avoid them as well as much as possible. Because I know that if I fished opening day and only Saturday mornings....I would find far too much frustration. But that goes for crowds in general I think?

---

I agree completely about crowds, however if it weren't for Saturday mornings I wouldn't have much opportunity to fish.

I reckon we all play the hand we're dealt. :)

Neil,
I liked the article. As for the qoute at the end, I don't remember number 7, but I do remember number 1. I remember the first trout on the fly, I'll bet Jack does to, he was there, but I remember my first fish ever. A little bream at the bridge where my Granddad lived. I was so excited and I wanted to keep it. I was abour 6 or 7 and I was goign to keep that fish forever. My Daddy asked me if I wanted to turn it lose, so that my little brother would have a chance to catch it, he would have been about 1 or 2 at the time. I don't remember telling Daddy this, but he remembers it. when the fish wiggled loose out of my little hands into the creek I told Daddy, "that was the best part!" I still like the way the fish feels when it wiggles loose and sllips out of my grasp. I don't know if fish have souls like the qoute mentioned, but it sure does something good to my soul to see it slip loose. I suppose some thinks that's crazy but that's ok, I'll go off up a little stream where there aren't any people and be crazy by myself if I need to.

thanks for sharing,
hNt