Here is another good one -
http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=568862007
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Here is another good one -
http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=568862007
Outstanding!!!!
Doug :D
Apples and Oranges, that's what this report is trying to compare. Nelson did not live in world where the distinct possibility that seemingly small, unimportant incident could escalate into the use of weapons that would kill hundreds of thousands, if not billions, of innocent people.
All modern military members of the NATO alliance are taught that we must asses the situation on the spot. We are specifically trained to defuse situations that can easily escalate to the point where many more lives than ours can be lost, or a devastating world war started. Having been in the middle east I can tell you that it is a powder keg just waiting for the spark to set it off. There are alliances there that we know very little about and are kept in the dark.
While I think that the sailors could, and should, have conducted themselves better in front of the press, I cannot condemn the decision they made under fire. I have been shot at in anger and it does weird things to your way of thinking. This crew surrendered to an unfriendly nation knowing full well that they had a good chance of being executed. I put it to you that they were willing to lay down their lives to prevent a devastating fight. Fortunately, cooler heads prevailed on both sides. Lets be thankful for that and learn how to fix the things that caused the incident.
General Patton put it so well when he said, "No soldier ever won a war by dieing for his country. He won by making the other poor bas*** die for his.".
Just my humble opinion.
Well Said Eric!
It is very difficult to make the other poor b*****d die for his country die if you don't shoot at him. But THAT decision seems to have been made for the sailors by the higher ups. Why string out your men and women in harm's way if they cannot inflict harm in return?Quote:
Originally Posted by nighthawk
Another humble opinion.
Ed
Having been a soldier for several years I would hazard to guess at what happened . :?
I do know that as a soldier when you are told "Go" you darn well "Go". :shock:
Policy makers usually have a plan that those on the ground know only as much as is needed. :lol:
This is just the way it is. Some times those on the ground are also told to shut up about what happened (provided no crime has happened , and then you better raise caine). Some times they are told what to say. Read "The Art of War" by Sun Tzsu. Great book. Should be mandatory reading (and comitted to memorization) for all politicians and military personel.
(works great in business too 8) )
hope that this post is not bumping or pushing the rules here . if so ,please dump it.
p.
Well said. Remember the saying, "Ours is not to reason why, it is but to do and to die.".Quote:
Originally Posted by perch
Eric,Quote:
Originally Posted by nighthawk
My Father served in the Navy in WW 2 and he drummed that into my head as I grew up only it wasn't OURS it was YOURS!
Doug
As a Vietnam Vet, I learned early on not to try to 'second guess' someone else's decisions. I wasn't there, so I can't really make any comment on what the British sailors should, or should'nt have done. I don't know what thier Rules Of Engagement were. It is possible that they were not authorized to use force under those conditions. Regardless of the situation, a field commander has to follow his orders from superiors....whether they are stupid, or not.
I do know that the media seldom gives you the correct story. When I was serving with the Marines in Phu Bai, and Da Nang, I know from seeing repeats of news clips from that time, that what everyone saw here at home bore little if any resemblence to what actually happened, from our perspective.
I have to agree with Nighthawk. I have served in the Middle East (back in the 70s and 80s) and it is, and always has been, a powderkeg waiting to go off....all the way back to Biblical times. There are tortuous lines of alliance, family and obligations that we would never be able to understand....some going back 1000 years or more.
The only good thing is that they seldom, if ever, embrace modern technology, and use mostly outdated equipment and tactics. The new stuff they purchase is usually just the export versions (lacking many classified or sensitive features), and they seldom have the expertise to maintain it on thier own. If it wasn't for that, they would be a much bigger threat to the world at-large, than they are now. With any luck, maybe it will stay that way.
Semper Fi!