How to kick

When tubing do you usually kick with your legs straight or your knees bent.

Either way which do you think is more efficient.

hey JC, does that mean a motor in your A**?

I kick with knees bent, and try to propell myself on the upstroke. Perhaps I'm doing it wrong, but the cramps I get in my inner thigh from kicking straight legged are NOT worth it.


------------------
A free gift waits for those who ask.
-----------------
Lotech Joe

Bent knee kick works best for me. Try to ensure that the force from your kick is going directly into pushing you through the water rather than inadvertantly kicking towards the bottom. Sounds like a silly thing to point out but it makes a difference when you are tired and dragging your butt back to shore. http://www.flyanglersonline.com/bb/wink.gif

RW here,

I use a canoe.

------------------
"We fish for pleasure; I for mine, you for yours." -James Leisenring on fishing the wet fly-

Usually bent although I've had times when I had more than an hour's worth of kicking to get back to shore. On those occassions I did both to prevent cramping like Lotech described.

My thought process tells me that the longer the stroke, (ie legs bent), the better the push.

8 horse yamaha, it has a good kick

Knees bent.
Mike

JC,RW,Rick,
That's why I really like my pontoon with its little electric motor.

Some thoughts...I pretty much do it as Bamboozle says...but if no cramps I go knees bent.....however, I have never been sure which is the most efficient....thinking that swimmers go straight legged so maybe that's the efficient way [of course they are not sitting]...too me straight legged is harder to do [blaming my lack of conditioning].

Am I correct in figuring that the design of Force Fins is for kicking with knees bent?

Duckster, RW again

I can get just about anywhere with my canoe. I also have an electric for my two canoes, but with paddles and my little Old Town Pack canoe I could probably get across two to 3 inches of water if I had too.
You can do a lot of different things with a toon, kayack and so forth, but you can't take a month long wilderness trip for two with all the gear and food you need without a 17 foot canoe. It can hold a thousand pounds comfortably. And then you can turn right around and use it on your local pond for an evening of bluegill fishing. No one will ever dispute the special things you can do with a variety of different watercraft, but neither will anyone ever dispute the versatility of a canoe. I've owned seven of them in my life.

later, RW



------------------
"We fish for pleasure; I for mine, you for yours." -James Leisenring on fishing the wet fly-

When I swam competitively we used to use force fins during swim practice for strength training and technique refinement. They aren't designed for any sport in particular.

So, SheTies, wouldn't the fact that they collapse in one direction make them inefficient for swimming????

The most proficient kick, and the one that produces the most power for the effort applied, is with a straight leg kick. The most powerful muscles in your legs are the located in the thigh area, not the calf, and if you use only the muscles below the knee, you are doing it the hard way, and the most inefficient way. The idea is not to lock your knees, but to keep them flexed with a fully extended leg.

If anyone doubts what I say, simply as a good competition swimmer which is the best and most proficient way to kick. He or she will tell you to use your entire leg.

Emerger

E-Merger,
I think I know what you are saying but to be sure....I think you mean the fully extended lower extremity.

Just for clarity the leg is from the knee down and the lower extremity is the thigh and the leg combined.

When you say..." The idea is not to lock your knees, but to keep them flexed with a fully extended leg." ...I presume you mean fully extended lower extremity.
I'm not sure how one does that with flexed knees? If the lower extremity is fully extended wouldn't you have to lock the knees straight????

So what I'm thinking is that the most powerfull way to kick when tubing is to have your lower extremity fully extended and kick...besides muscles used it puts the trust the most "forward" [actually it's back wards in a tube].
However I think must of us are not in such great shape and we kick with our knees flexed and still get trust.

And I would also say that when kicking with the knees flexed you can still engage the thigh muscles [though maybe not as efficiently].

You all may be wondering why such a thread [???boring] but for the last two days since the fishing was slow and the conditions included wind that's what I got thinking about....not to mention the cramps....

And I have a hunch it effects a lot of us.

After reading the posts, I see tht I should have explained my statement about "bent knees". Mine are probably bent about 45 degrees, not 90 & I DO power with the upper leg. Something I tried once in my Wood River (which sits you low in the water) to power faster may sound silly, but I borrowed it from the "butterfly swim stroke". I locked my 2 legs together, bent knees the 45 degrees, pointed "toes out", & kicked from the thigh, keeping both legs together. My speed was noticeably faster, & it was really not that tiring. I just got tired of moving too slowly & decided to think a little "out of the box".
Mike

Duckster...

Try your fins in the pool while swimming on your back, start with trying to just use the lower half of your legs to kick. You will bob up and down in the water. This is the way most children and various "damsels in distress" will kick. You will move but it isn't very efficient.

Now try using your whole leg. Don't worry about how fast you are kicking just get the motion right. Most times when bringing your leg up during a kick you will bend the knee slightly and roll/list to one side. Focus on that last little flip with the fins as you finish your kick. When kicking on the downstroke your ankle will flex and your toes will point up slightly, again push the tip of the fin down to complete the downstroke. Try to stay relaxed and use your whole leg right down to your toes. If you want to speed up try to keep the kicks the same size (large) and put more force into it instead of high repititions of small kicks.

The bend in your knees will never stay exactly the same during your kick... just try not to "ride a bike" while in the water http://www.flyanglersonline.com/bb/wink.gif

Okay now some tips for the butterfly kick. Point your toes together, keep knees together and start the kick with your hips. This is more of an undulating kick that tends to have a very short but rapid stroke. In a float tube this is another bobbing kick and difficult to do from a sitting position.

Hope that helped clarify some of my points. http://www.flyanglersonline.com/bb/biggrin.gif

Dear ducksterman,

With a "U" shaped float tube I have no choice but to kick with my knees bent. If I tried to kick straight-legged I'd be kicking the air.

Regards,
Tim Murphy

Tim,

Mine is a U too and I can kick with the knees straight [locked]...in fact as I sit in the chair now I can have a straight lower extremity and locked knees angled toward the floor. The lower extremity doesn't have to be at 90 degrees to the pelvis.

Dear ducksterman,

Yes, what you describe is physically possible, but why would you want to limit yourself to a half-length kick?

I just let my legs dangle at the knees and kick by working my thighs.

Regards,
Tim Murphy

Duck,

I don't think anyone can kick for very long a period with a "locked" knee without the leg muscles becomeing very fatiged. What I meant by a "flexed" knee is that the knee is not locked, but allowed to move a limited amount, with the majority of the power coming from the thigh muscles. It amounts pretty much, as I stated before, to kick like a good swimmer does when doing the crawl stroke. If you will watch the legs of good swimmers, they are fully extended, but the knee is not locked, allowing the lower leg (below the knee) to give slightly in a fluid motion.

Another example, although not as representive, is the way a golfer keeps his knees flexed during the stoke. In other words, they bend slightly to take up the shock of the stroke. Another example is a downhill skier, whose knees are slight bent and allowed to flex without locking the knee.

Hope this helps some.

Emerger

I try to limit the amount of surface splashing so that dictates a bent knee kick. Force Fins are great for this.

Hey RW, I respect your love for the canoe but I do have to wonder how you control the canoe when you have a big Brown on that is swimming circles around your canoe all the while you are being blown across the water by a force 5 wind towards the rocky shore? (teasing a bit here :-) y'know.)

------------------
Snow on the roof with fire in the hearth

Wife kicks/rows, I do the fishing.

------------------
**MW**

I agree with emerger that the thighs are what you need to do the work. From a seated position you can't help but use a bent leg kick by extending your legs and ankles out on the upswing for power and bending the knees and ankles back in to retract/or downswing. This works really great for slow power trolling. For faster speed and more power you have to lean back so that you can keep your legs straighter and use your thighs and hips. But yes, that will cramp you up quick.

------------------
Remember to take a kid fishing.

Normally I use the "Bent Knee's" style of kicking, when fly fishing from my "WaterSkeeter PonTube". I do occasionally use the "Straight Leg" style of kicking, when I am trolling, or pulling a hooked Jet Skier through the water....


~ Parnelli

Down in the bottom of the Itty Bitty Pool.
Swam Three Little Fishies, and a Mommy Fishy too.
"Swim", said the Mommy Fishy, "Swim if you can!"
And they, swam swam, all over the Dam.


http://www.animationlibrary.com/Anim...Flyfishing.gif



[This message has been edited by Steven H. McGarthwaite (edited 26 April 2005).]