What knot....4lb flurocarbon to Fly

Hello,
I am trying to use flurocarbon. I hear/see many things that say the normal knots do not work with flurocarbon. Could someone pls advise me an some knots that supposedly DO work with flurocarbon to a fly or swivel?

jim

Jim,

The knot I prefer to use is the Turle knot but some of the instructional videos out there make it far more complicated than necessary. A knot almost exactly like the Turle knot is the Orvis Knot. You can google it. They give a good presentation on how to tie it. This is a 100% knot and is great for either fluro or mono.

Larry ---sagefisher---

I've found that fluoro has a little harder and slicker surface. That makes it good for nymph fishing -- more abrasion resistant and less water absorption than mono -- but its also easier for knots to slip -- with the telltale pigtail end -- especially in smaller diameters. I still use an improved clinch knot for tying to flies and tippet rings, but I increase the number of turns from 6 turns with mono in 4x or 5x size to 7 turns with 4lb fluoro (Seaguar Invizix).

Scroll down for Fluorocarbon knot strengths:

https://www.yellowstoneangler.com/ge...ppet-shootout/


PT/TB

As the old knot saying goes .... a knot is only as good as it's tied. I have a few knots that I've learned to tie good with my own methodology, and they have served me well with either fluro or mono. With pan fish and trout, the clinch works just fine. Getting into some big fish like salmon, steel head, salt water fishing, and such, the polomar is the heavy duty knot I use.

I use the improved clinch, like John I use 7 turns on my lighter tippets and 6 turns on my heavier tippets

Wow what good info. Tks to all of you. Planet trout....tks for that link.... a ton of great information. I am going to try the San Diego Jam knot. I am curious about it. Some videos show it as one knot...and others run it thru the eye of the hook twiice and call it the double jam knot? I am curious if using 4lb flurocarbon and running it through the eye of the hook would be ok. Or should one just do the plain SD jam knot?

... to the party, Jim, but thought I would chime in.

I haven't used fluoro leaders or tippet much since virtually all of my fly fishing is with dry flies, with an occasional outing with streamers, and a rare exception fishing nymphs. I don't use fluoro with dries, because they tend to sink the fly, especially the smaller ones. I fish streamers with a Type II full sinking line so there is no reason to waste money using fluoro.

When I have used fluoro, the simple ( not improved ) clinch knot has worked just fine. I typically use a four turn clinch knot.

One anecdote about fluoro and clinch knots. Back in April 2016 I was fishing a northern Idaho freestone river using some Orvis 0X fluoro tippet tied to the tip ring of a homebrew furled fluoro leader with a four turn clinch knot and a J.A.R.S. nymph with the same knot. In a little under half an hour, I hooked up two B run Clearwater River steelhead trout and landed both. Both of these fishies were in excess of 30" and it took about eight minutes to land each of them. The four turn clinch knot held up just fine.

John

I'm with Scott - simple clinch knot but make sure it 's tied well. Or improved clinch.

I appreciate the information John and Tig. I did not say my question correctly. I mis-spoke.....I am trying to tie the fluro to a very small swivel. I am finding it quite difficult because the swivel swivels.....uh....when trying to wrap the fluor. I am attempting to rig up an Ultra Lite spin rod with an ultra lite reel. Trying to connect a small swivel with a very small clip that came on it. That way I can switch Rooster Tails or other small lures quickly. So....am trying to tie a permanent knot to the swivel......not a fly. Wondering. If fluor is so close to invisible to fish.....why should I try 2lb and 4lb fluro? Instead of breaking off flies and stuff under water....around structure.....lilly pads....etc. If so much less visible than mono or braid....instead of going 2lb or 4 for stealth reasons just tie on 8lb or 10lb fluro....
I have many many ponds, streams, lakes where I live. While driving in this state I cross many streams and such. Bridges and such....not too conducive to a fly rod. My little 4'-6" ultralite can toss a Rooster Tail into that stream so fast and easy. I have caught trout, bass, and chub this way. Kinda fun and helps me find fishing spots. Anyway.....thank you all for the help.

jim

Jim -

Whatever tippet material I am using, when I tie a clinch knot, after I pass the tippet through a tip ring or through the eye of a hook, I form a fairly large loop and then hold the loop, with my left thumb and forefinger, wide open away from the tip ring or hook eye. After doing four turns using the right hand to complete the turns by passing the tag end over and around the standing tippet four times, I pass the tag end through the loop I am holding open and start snugging it up, after wetting it.

It seems to me that using this approach to forming a clinch knot would work with a swivel ( that swivels ) because you are holding the open loop firm and not even involving the swivel until you have mostly completed snugging the knot down. At that point, there is no reason for the swivel to swivel as you complete setting the knot.

John

I use the improved clinch when I'm attaching swivels to my spinning gear, the one or two times a year I break it out. For small swivels, I just bring the line through the top part of the swivel and form the loop. I hold the swivel and the bottom part of the loop, make my wraps and bring the tag end through the loop and tighten it for the clinch knot or for the improved clinch bring it through the bottom loop and then though the loop at the top of the wraps for the improved clinch.
My last stop before fly fishing was ultra light spin fishing. I have 6 foot ultra light rod with spinning reel to match. I went all in with it using 4 lb mono. Then I started losing fish, lures and rigs. Eventually I ended up settling on 8 lb test which allowed me handle larger fish. I have two spools for the reel I use one has 8 lb fluorocarbon the other 10 lb braid. The rod is built on a one of kind blank, so it's not going to see any action in the near future.

Thank you John and Philly. Actually thank all of you for posting info on here. It has helped me a lot. I just woke up to the old familiar clinch knot.....tks to you guys. With the Jam Knot there is only one strand going thru the eyelet. Same with Clinch knot. Only one strand thru the eyelet. So the debate has been that some knots don't work with fluro. So I search the internet and the Jam was said to be best. Heck....still only one strand thru the eye.....I am just going to use the clinch knot and put a dab of super glue or UV Glue on it to harden it up a bit.

BTW my comment about my little 4'-6" Ultralite is that many places while driving offer water....but covered with trees and such....and the little ultralite will toss a lure out pretty good to check the waters.

Thank all of you for helping me out. I am satisfied with my rigging now. And thank you John for the step by step procedure.

jim

Okay, I will be the different one. I use a double Davey knot and have for a few years. It is very fast to tie, once you've practiced it some, and it is vey strong. I really like it because it is a very small knot and easier to get two of the knots at the eye of the point fly. If you don't tie the knot correctly, it will pull right out when you go to test it.

Ted

Jim -

A couple additional thoughts.

First, knot strength, not leader or tippet strength, is the weakest point in your rigging. ( Knot strength is typically expressed as a percentage of tippet strength - less than 100%. ) I have never heard of a knot that is actually stronger than the strength of the material being knotted. If I had, or if one exists, that is the knot I would be using.

Second, there are two material strengths to consider. First, there is tensile strength, and second, there is shear strength. Tensile strength is measured by when the material will fail when stretched. Shear strength is measured by when a material will fail when force is applied across that material ( from 90 degrees to the material ).

The strength of a leader or tippet in pounds refers to its tensile strength. The strength of a knot is measured in terms of a percentage of the tensile strength of the material being knotted. So the weakest point in your rigging is the knot.

I have never experienced a leader or tippet failing from the shear force at the tip ring or eye of the hook, and have never heard anyone speak about such a failure. Perhaps it does happen, but not to the extent that it has been even considered a possibility in discussions about rigging strength. The point being, why pass the leader or tippet throught the eye of the hook twice when doubling the shear strength will not in any way improve the tensile strength of a single strand of the material being knotted or improve the knot strength ??

John

I know and like the Davey; but what is a double Davey? I'm guessing you leave a long tag at end of first Davey and then tie a second one? Wait, I Googled it and it is also called an improved Davey;which I know. Davy and improved Davy are strong, quick,easy and very small. But they cinch up tight, so best for small diameter tippet.

Wow! Davey and Improved Davey very interesting.

thanks

I would also recommend the improved/double Davy knot. Have used this knot with 6, 6.5, and 7x for the past year and really like it. Simple to tie, especially when it gets a bit colder. Granted I have not caught a lot of large fish while using this knot .... largest was 20-21 inches ... and I had not had a failure yet. There's also a video on you tube that shows how you can use a pair of hemostats that might make it easier (I believe Tim Flagler teaches this method). You are getting lots of good feedback --- good luck!

I found the Tim Flager video of using plunger style hackle pliers to do the Davey and Improved/Double Davey knot....really simple. oh....on Trout Unlimited....
Thank you very much.

jim