Fly lines, price VS quality.

As most know I'm green to most thing fly fishing, last Friday I bought me a cheapo Eagle Claw 3/4 wt fiber glass rod just for something to tinker with, also picked up some Rio 3wt WFF line, the store had (what I would think to be) a decent selection of lines from several brand names & prices varied quite a bit, got me to thinking (scary huh) about bang for the buck, I dont have a problem spending the extra frog skins for something thats actually of better quality and would rather buy quality products, but theres quite a price gap in some brands of fly line and for what I know most are of nearly the same material.


QUESTION : Just how much difference is there in lines, does the extra ammount spent equal better quality,durablity,casting ease...what ??


Thanks in advance. ( And now back to your regularly scheduled program...)

BR-549

In my opinion, yes. There is a difference between lines. I am sure some will say not and that is their opinion, like they say, everyone has one, an opinion that is.

Durability, casting ease, floatability (for floating lines), sinkability (for sinking lines), you name it. For a newby to fly fishing we often suggest they buy a fly rod/reel/line outfit. Those often consist of middle of the road rods/reels/lines but that is all a beginner needs to get started. Down the road as you branch out into other fly rods and reels you will want to go with other lines as well.

Rio is a very good company. As long as the line matches with the rod you can't go wrong with Rio. The majority of my fly lines are Rio brand.

Larry ---sagefisher---

Don't underestimate that Eagle Claw..... I use the 5/6 weight model 95% of the time. They're very nice! Great bang for the buck.

I agree with Larry, that there is a difference between lines. Especially when it comes to price. I have used some of the less expensive lines/cheaper lines, and have been less, pun intended, impressed. The more you pay for a fly line the more you get. Larry mentioned what those are.

I think if you stick with the well known companies such as Rio, Scientific Anglers and Cortland, you can't go too wrong. Even some of there less expensive lines perform well. An example would be SA's Headstart. I use it on my 6wt for warm water and it not only cast well, but also turns over larger flies well.

Normally, what I have found in less expensive lines is that they just don't float as well, or cast as easily as some of the more expensive fly lines. Beating around a bluegill pond may not make those qualities that big of a deal, but it does, at least to me, when I am trout fishing spring creeks, or throwing top water poppers to smallmouth bass.

Dave

I've used so many fly lines over the years I've about lost tract ... and with the "new" marketing strategy, there have been all kinds of whistles and bells and claims ... and PRICE! And with today's corporate pea and shell game, you have to keep an eye on who sold what to whom and who owns what brand.

Let me take a couple of old brands that have been around for years and I have used for quite awhile (there are others, too, but let me just pick these two) - Cortland and Scientific Anglers. I have used Cortland for so many years I cannot remember when I first bought their line. Presently for my favorite 9' 5wt (Stillwater fly rod), I use a DT5F Cortland 444 "Peach" line. Love the line, love the color of the line, love how it casts. And quite often this is my dry fly rod.
O.K., also have a 8 1/2' 7wt rod that I refer to as my "windy river rod" (and two different rivers I use the rod on are just that) - since I can get that line ensnared on the river, plus I'm using more streamers, nymphs (and even poppers), and here I use Cortland's Fairplay line. The 444 Peach runs about $62.00 and the Fairplay $19.95. Is there a difference(?) Absolutely - but three times as much in cost(?) Open for debate. I suppose if the 444 Peach was twice the Fairplay, I'd concede, however three times as much ...?
Found the same thing with Scientific Anglers - my first S.A. fly line was an "Air Cel" - today that line would be in the neighborhood of $25.00. They also have a Mastery Series that sells for three times as much. And I would compare these lines with the Cortland Series.

Bottom line, if money is no object in your life and you got the bucks to splash around, nothing like the best. However, if I was strapped for cash because of demands for other things, that Cortland Fairplay and the S.A. Air Cel both are damn good fly lines for the money (I speak from experience). And I'm comparing them with the other lines I presently have, the Cortland 444 Peach and the S.A. Mastery.

Good info and opinions, as usual here. Not everyone can spring for a $70-100 line, especially for multiple rod weights. DaleW made some good suggestions about that. I would also suggest looking into the Hook and Hackle lines. They are quite reasonable, and many folks have been very pleased with them. I'm one of those, BTW. Equivalent to a Sharkskin? No. Very useful for 80-90% of my fishing? Absolutely.

Chuck

I am another fan of Cortland 444 for being one of the more efficient 'bang for the buck" lines. Below is a link to what Bass Pro shows on their website.

http://www.basspro.com/Brand-Cortlan...z0xeniZ1z0usvj

If you are new to fly casting, better lines should help you in your casting efforts. That is a valid consideration. Weight forward lines (WF), rocket tapers, shooting tapers, etc... are probably the easiest to cast. Dual taper (DT) lines generally will give dry flies the most gentle presentation, but that might be a secondary consideration to people just starting to learn. With a 3/4-weight rod, I would use at least a 4-weight line. That's just my opinion. I concede that I am not a good caster.


Regards,
Ed

You line is only as good as your care and maintenance. Fly line dressing is critical for floating lines regardless of cost/quality. You can go cheap and, properly dressed, get it to perform better than a line costing 5x the price.
Also, you should focus on the higher weight line of your rod’s specification. Even if you have a 6wt (not a 5-6) you should still consider 7wt line.

I am in line with DaleW. He is right on IMO. I also agree with the coach you'd have been better served to go up a line weight. A 3/4 in the hands of a good caster can perform well with a three but for learning the game the extra weight of a 4 helps load the rod better. This is particularly true if you are fishing at less than 35' of line out or so. If you're learning curve is not going well consider the heavier line.

I usually buy good quality lines on sale at year end.

Don't think I've spent more than $30-35 (usually less) for a fly line in years (except for a Teeny TS I wanted for some heavy saltwater stuff) and haven't had any problems. The Airflow WF6 I just replaced lasted 7 years and would have gone longer if I hadn't stepped on it so many times with studded boots. Only really bad line I've ever had was a Cortland Laser Line; absolute POS - stiff (wish my computer had that much memory) and worthless in cold water (possibly it was meant to be cast on an active lava flow?).
Keep your line clean (I like Glide) and it'll fly through the guides just like in the movies.

Regards,
Scott

I have been using Dorber lines for the past few years.
They were at SowBug and a few of my friends recommended them.
Love the lines. They are about $13.00.

Rick

I'd certainly say you typically get what you pay for with fly line, but there are good fly lines out there for cheap.

I just recently tried a few RIO fly lines and I love them but they are a little bit on the pricey side of things. Before using RIO lines, I'd gone thru several Cabela's lines. For $20 I suppose they are alright but there are better =<$20 lines out there. I picked up a fly line from Risen Fly that I've been fairly impressed with ($25 but they frequently have sales, so I paid $15 for it).

I also received a combo from Cabela's that had Cortland 444 Sylk fly line on it. I was not impressed. It hardly floats, it's casting is so-so, it's worthless in cold weather, definitely not what I expected from a $50+ line.

I'll second the Dorber line. Pretty good line for $13. I got some at the Sowbug several years ago. Also got a pretty nice little reel for not too much money.

The Dorber lines are made by Northern Sport in Ontario. I have one that I bought in 1984 that still doesn't have a crack.
In fact, all of my last 9 or 10 lines that I've purchased were all in the $10 range and I've only worn out one of them.

Agree with most of what has been said, especially about the price of lines getting out of hand. Odds are good manufacturers like Rio, which makes a very good line, are going to price themselves right out business. Eventually lines made overseas will flood the market (there are already a few out there) and we will then have threads complaining about how there are fly lines are no longer 'made in America'. While I buy Rio lines almost exclusively, the price point is now high enough that I'm going to probably give Dorber, Allen, and all the other up and coming line resellers a serious look.

Dorber has been selling line for years. Tried some at one point and haven't bought any since.

I doubt that Rio, SA or Cortland will price themselves out of the business. They've been around a long time. Walk into any fly shop, or big box store and whose line do you see. If cheap fly lines were just as good as the higher priced quality fly lines, who do you think fly shops and the bbs would carry?

And remember that all three carry lines at different price points to appeal to the budget of most fly anglers. And no I am not a rep for any of those companies.

Dave

Count me in as a fan of Cortland 444 also, but I will usually only pay that kind of money for the rigs I will be using for distance casting. On all my small stream and creek rigs, I buy as cheap as I can find since distance isn't a concern and they seem to work perfectly for those fisheries.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by anglerdave

...If cheap fly lines were just as good as the higher priced quality fly lines, who do you think fly shops and the bbs would carry?

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The one that makes them the most money ;)!

I used a Cortland 444 peach on the San Juan. Tip kept sinking. Fellow in boat said try mine. Rio Gold. No more sinking tip. I am now a big Rio fan. Not a scientific study for sure....but that was my experience. I also have a ton of Dorber fly lines. Can't say why...but I do not like them at all. just an opinion.
I have not had enough experience to compare SA and others.

BTW to shed more light on that experience. I was with a guide in a drift boat. I used his reel with the Rio Gold line the rest of the day.....all day....and totally forgot about the sinking tip fly line issue. It just uh....went away. Just enjoyed fishing the rest of the day. Instead of pulling in my fly line, cleaning it, dressing it, back to fishing only to be good for a little while and then line sinks again. The Rio Gold did not sink tip the rest of the entire day.

Fly lines .... they are kind of like belly buttons most folks have one or more.

I tend to be normally a frugal shopper. My normal thing is to wait until they clear out lines at the end of the season if I need to get a new one.

I have a couple of Orvis Wonderlines and they make me wonder why folks like them.

I am a big fan of the Cortland Peach 444.

Last year I've had this rod I built years ago but could never find a line it liked and my go to 5wt rod busted a guide loose as the varnish failed after 30 years.

Supposedly it was a 3wt but I tried everything I had from 2 to 5wt and nothing worked. A friend recommended Dorber he AQUANOVA and I decided to try a 6wt and ordered it. Best decision I made as that is really a nice line and made the rod come alive.

This fly line is made in Canada http://www.flyline.net/about-us/index.html

I did get a couple of really cheap $8 fly lines when I ordered some new blanks from China and I gave a couple of them to my picky son #2 to try.

I'd add that one of the sites I frequent has a Classified section where there is a constant stream of lines for sale, usually only used once or twice. I have bought and sold several lines there and I've never gotten a bad line. I like to have several lines around to experiment with on different rods and when a good line comes up on the board for $25-35 and one in a size and name I haven't tried I'll usually grab it up. If I like it I may then sell and almost new line I had for someone else to check out. A good system for buying top quality lines at big markdowns. One seller on there has a deal with some line companies to try their products on the rods he builds and he often sells lines that have only been lawn cast a few times.

BR,

Sorry I was late to the party. Let me tell you about my experience with fly lines, since I got into flyfishing in 2011. I bought a mass-produced 5/6wt kit similar to the one you did, and it came with level-taper line that was absolutely worthless. I replaced it with $12 weight-forward 6wt line from the local Walmart and that made a tremendous improvement. Although my casting improved immediately, I still couldn't figure out how to shoot line, or at least not very much. Later experience would show that this was more due to the rod guides than to the line. I still use this line on my old department store rod as a backup outfit, and sometimes just to remember old times when I was learning to cast.

As my skills and interest grew, I splurged on a $50 store-brand line with a color demarkation at 30' and a welded loop, marketed for trout fishing. I could not have been happier with this line, and it progressed with me as I bought first a better reel and then a more expensive rod. During my first year and a half of flyfishing however, most of my casting was on grass, and I was practicing 3-5 times a week for 30 or more minutes. That's thousands and thousands of casts, mostly at my maximum range, and the line has cracked completely around near the welded loop. About 1/8" of braided nylon is showing where the cracked line coating has come off, but the loop still holds. I now only use this line for practice.

Meanwhile, I bought a clearance 4wt outfit from St. Croix that came with a budget-model reel and a budget flyline. I wish I knew what it was, because it casts great and performs as well as any of the other lines I've used. Maybe it's the rod, who knows. It doesn't have the welded loop or the color changing transition, but otherwise I love it. The entire outfit was $80 (half-off clearance), so I'm guessing the line was what might otherwise sell in the $20 range.

Not too long after buying the St. Croix, I also bought an expensive $80 name-brand line marketed for Smallmouth bass fishing with my 6wt outfit. This line also has the color change and the welded loop. On the whole, this has been a disappointment. I think the line can cast larger flies than my cracked trout line, but the difference is hardly noticeable. The tip of the smallmouth line sinks worse than any of the other lines, although they all sink to some degree. I've found myself using my 4wt instead of my 6wt outfit just because the setup is so much easier to cast, shoot line, roll cast, etc.

To summarize, I have enjoyed my store brand mid-priced line more than any of the others, although I wore it out with very little fishing because of my heavy casting practice. I was most dissappointed with my expensive $80 specialty line, although I do still use it. The big surprise was the budget line that came with my St. Croix outfit, although it may be the rod is that great and results with any line would be similar.

What would I recommend for you? Replace whatever line came on your Eagle Claw with a budget-priced line if features don't matter to you. If you like knowing when you are at 30' and want a welded loop to change leaders, store brands can be comparable to the more expensive lines and cost a fair amount less. High-end lines may not be a panaccea, but I'm sure they aren't all bad either. Know that casting on grass can damage the coating on a flyline, and getting a budget line and reel is not a bad idea if you will be practicing much. As some have said, don't be afraid to keep that Eagle Claw, it's probably a very underrated rod.

EDIT: Just to be clear, my 6wt rod is not a St. Croix (I don't want to badmouth the brand, it may be me). I have NO COMPLAINTS regarding my 4wt St. Croix, and would recommend it to anyone, if it weren't discontinued 2 years ago. I can't speak for other St. Croix models. This edit is in response to AnlgerDave's helpful tips.

Sorry for not getting back sooner, went back to the over the road trucking thing & didnt get in last weekend, the things we do for money....

Anywho, big thanks for the big turn out, never expected 3 pages of input, but would bet my paycheck on every word of it being true & honest, think I'll stick with a middle of the road line for now, as bad as my casting skills are spending the extra cash aint gonna make a differnce. (HA !!)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by waskeyc

BR,

Sorry I was late to the party. Let me tell you about my experience with fly lines, since I got into flyfishing in 2011. I bought a mass-produced 5/6wt kit similar to the one you did, and it came with level-taper line that was absolutely worthless. I replaced it with $12 weight-forward 6wt line from the local Walmart and that made a tremendous improvement. Although my casting improved immediately, I still couldn't figure out how to shoot line, or at least not very much. Later experience would show that this was more due to the rod guides than to the line. I still use this line on my old department store rod as a backup outfit, and sometimes just to remember old times when I was learning to cast.

As my skills and interest grew, I splurged on a $50 store-brand line with a color demarkation at 30' and a welded loop, marketed for trout fishing. I could not have been happier with this line, and it progressed with me as I bought first a better reel and then a more expensive rod. During my first year and a half of flyfishing however, most of my casting was on grass, and I was practicing 3-5 times a week for 30 or more minutes. That's thousands and thousands of casts, mostly at my maximum range, and the line has cracked completely around near the welded loop. About 1/8" of braided nylon is showing where the cracked line coating has come off, but the loop still holds. I now only use this line for practice.

Meanwhile, I bought a clearance 4wt outfit from St. Croix that came with a budget-model reel and a budget flyline. I wish I knew what it was, because it casts great and performs as well as any of the other lines I've used. Maybe it's the rod, who knows. It doesn't have the welded loop or the color changing transition, but otherwise I love it. The entire outfit was $80 (half-off clearance), so I'm guessing the line was what might otherwise sell in the $20 range.

Not too long after buying the St. Croix, I also bought an expensive $80 name-brand line marketed for Smallmouth bass fishing with my 6wt outfit. This line also has the color change and the welded loop. On the whole, this has been a disappointment. I think the line can cast larger flies than my cracked trout line, but the difference is hardly noticeable. The tip of the smallmouth line sinks worse than any of the other lines, although they all sink to some degree. I've found myself using my 4wt instead of my 6wt outfit just because the setup is so much easier to cast, shoot line, roll cast, etc.

To summarize, I have enjoyed my store brand mid-priced line more than any of the others, although I wore it out with very little fishing because of my heavy casting practice. I was most dissappointed with my expensive $80 specialty line, although I do still use it. The big surprise was the budget line that came with my St. Croix outfit, although it may be the rod is that great and results with any line would be similar.

What would I recommend for you? Replace whatever line came on your Eagle Claw with a budget-priced line if features don't matter to you. If you like knowing when you are at 30' and want a welded loop to change leaders, store brands can be comparable to the more expensive lines and cost a fair amount less. High-end lines may not be a panaccea, but I'm sure they aren't all bad either. Know that casting on grass can damage the coating on a flyline, and getting a budget line and reel is not a bad idea if you will be practicing much. As some have said, don't be afraid to keep that Eagle Claw, it's probably a very underrated rod.

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Just a couple of thoughts.

1. The $50 line that is now cracked behind the welded loop. You could always cut that off and either make a new loop, there are plenty of tutorials on the net on how to do this, or just cut the loop of off your leader and nail knot it directly to the fly line.

2. As far as that Rio Smallmouth line not casting well on your rod. It could be that it's not properly matched to your rod. I don't know what St Croix rod you bought, but I have a handfull of them from Legend Elites, down to a couple of Imperial 4wts and some lines work better on them than others. That Rio line has a 200 grain head weight which as you noted is designed to cast larger flies. Most of the folks I know who use that line are using it on a faster action type fly rod.

3. With regards to you tip sinking. All line tips, sooner or later will sink. Just put some line/leader past on it when it does and make sure you clean you line after each use.

Hopefully this may or may not help.

Dave

Just to continue the thought ....

I've never had a fly line of any brand that that the tip end would not be sinking after some use. The solution as already posted is (#1) line cleaning (#2) line dressing. I know there are many, many fly line dressings available today and no doubt many variations used my members of this board, but let me say that I came across one some time back (I think at a fly shop) that has worked so well ... brand name is Accardo - which I know will cure the fly line tip sinking.

I keep my fly lines cleaned with line dressing applied, and I get long life out of them.

I have spent a lot and a little, and the only commonality is that the tips sink. Even with "properly" dressed line, after a relatively short period of time, the tips sink.

My advice? Spending less is better. Buy on sale, or buy cheap.

At one time the Cortland 333 was the top-of-the-line. Now it's considered an inexpensive decent line. Get what you can afford comfortably and you'll be fine. Oh, Cortland manufacturers lines for many companies which is then sold under that company's name. Also, be very careful with any line treatments. Best way to clean line is simply some gentle dish soap in warm water. Wash, rinse thoroughly, and air dry completely.

Being fairly new to this addictive habit, compared to others on here, my best experience has been with RIO Gold and Perception. Have tried the ORVIS Wonderlines as stated above, and I agree with that poster, it is just a fly line that works. Tried SA lines, tried discontinued, "named but not named" fly lines from the Somerset fly fishing shows, and nothing I have ever used, comes close to the RIO lines. I have a very close friend, who has plenty of money to spend, but is so tight that he separates two ply toilet paper........not exaggerating........he is a TIGHTWAD!!! Well when I took my new rods down to his house for him to try and cast, he was absolutely amazed at how much his casting improved, increased distance, better loops etc., even on the low end rods that he had, that he immediately replaced the lines on his primary rods with the RIO Perception or RIO GOLD lines. Now this was not something that happened in a few minutes, it took about 3-4 hours of exchanging reels, trying other lines, SA"s, ORVIS, Cortland 555, Unknown brands etc. There was absolutely no denying the improvements......he was converted. I myself will be a loyal RIO customer forever..........best stuff that I have used.

I have purchased lines from $10 to $99 and while the more costly lines are almost always a notably better line, they are not worth the extra money for most of my fishing. I will generally load up on closeout lines at the end of the season. In addition, I have had good success with lines purchased from Hook & Hackle and Old Tyme Fly Fishing. I especially favor Old Tyme Fly Fishing's Magalloway floating lines, but the lines are DT which is not to everyone's liking.