Anybody have any experience using running lines with shooting heads/poly leaders on single-hand fly rods? Do you get a lot more distance on casts?
Would love to hear your experiences...the good and the bad. :mrgreen:
Printable View
Anybody have any experience using running lines with shooting heads/poly leaders on single-hand fly rods? Do you get a lot more distance on casts?
Would love to hear your experiences...the good and the bad. :mrgreen:
I have a 7 wt. Rio Outbound line that I use for streamer fishing. I think the Rio Outbond line has something like a 37' shooting head followed by a clear poly running line. I have it on an old Abel Big Game #1 reel, which I mostly use on a 9 1/2' Sage XP rod. That combo really handles big streamers with ease. Most of the time, I'm wading (often up to my armpits) and casting 50' or so with no problems. When I say "big streamers" I'm talking a heavily weighted streamer that's 4-5" long. Standing up in the front of my drift boat where I'm higher above the water level, and/or not wading in as deep water, or using smaller or lighter streamers and I'm able to cast that combo well over 60' with ease.Quote:
Originally Posted by FishnDave
About the only thing I could say negative (and it's really not a negative about that specific line) is that it is not a fast sinking tip line, which can be an advantage in some situations.
I've used similar set-ups in saltwater. You must use a stripping basket!! 100' of running line gets very tangled very fast. I've never used it with a poly leader. My shooting heads are all sinking so I would not want a floating leader. Using a 9wt you can easily cast 125'. Perfect for saltwater shore beach fishing. Careful when a big fish hits short line, the running line can cut your fingers if your not careful getting the fish on the reel.
Yes, you get more distance out of a shooting head rig (i.e. a running line with a changeable head). Monofilament lines like Amnesia or the newer nylon products like Rio SlickShooter typically will throw the farthest, although dedicated "fly line" running lines like those made by Rio etc. are MUCH easier to handle (and can be found in floating or sinking varieties).
That being said, shooting heads are a royal pain to deal with, and I'd rather use an "integrated" line (i.e. a non-changeable shooting head) any day of the week. The Rio Outbound someone mentioned is a good example, as would be the classic Teeny T Series lines, but everyone makes a similiar line.
Polyleaders/Versi Leaders are really a different sort of beast. I guess one could set up a shooting head on a very light rod with a poly leader (one would have to match the grains to the rod) with a running line, but not sure why you would want to. More often than not, they are used as impromptu sinktips, or leaders on spey rigs.
Back in the 'dark ages' they would take a double taper line and cut it in half, using it as the shooting head tied onto an Amnesia line and they really cast great. Then the line companies caught on to what the fly casters wanted and they started producing some really good shooting head lines. My favorite is the Rio Outbound, great for casting longer distances when you don't have much of a backcast area. Stick with the modern day shooting head lines rather than going old school and cutting a line in half.
Larry ---sagefisher---
So how is the running line attached to the end of the shooting line so that everything goes through the guides without hanging up?
Dave
Most of my fishing is warmwater and done with floating lines, so I'd like to start with a floating shooting head. I can use Clousers when I want to fish deeper. I also still want the option of using a sinking head if I do need to get deeper in current in a "dam/spillway" situation.
Thanks for the responses so far! Keep 'em coming! :D
Here is the old school method http://www.speypages.com/customlines.html we used back in the day sagefisher is talking about. Works just as well today.Quote:
Originally Posted by dave potts
Lots of great info given here, I would add this;
Since the 60's, I have and still use heads of various designs and manufacture on my single hand rods. They range in length from 27' to 35', floating, intermediate, fast sinking, to a Sunset line that is 32 grains to the foot. The designs are off the shelf, hybrid types(with and without looped tips), to custom compound formulations. The method of forming loops for attachment to tips or running line are explained above. As for running lines I have mono lines 30# Amnesia, 50# Slick Shooter, 80# Frogs Hair for various situations. My favorite running/shooting line is Airflo ridge in 20# or 30#, easy to handle and never lose my grip, which can be problematic with mono when it gets wet. Lastly, yes for use as a tool to get more distance in the casts.
wcglass
I use a lot of them, especiallywhen fishing for halibut on fly gear... You need to get deep fast and the thicker and heavier fly/running line just slows that process.
I use it a lot for small stream salmon, especially silvers where you often need to move very large flies and do it with a roll cast while adding English, a reach while holding your mouth exactly right, and flicking your tongue... or something like that. Loading the rod can be very tough in a lot of these situations and being able to pick up a very short line and get it back on the water exactly where you want it is often much easier with a heavy shooting head.
For surf fishing here on the west coast we are using both integrated and non integrated set ups. I have both and prefer to build my own non integrated. My set up is a Rio intermediate shooting line coldwater (.024 in) to a 25-30 ft T-8,11 or 14 head to a furled leader w/ a three way swivel to two flies. Haven't done anything with a floating line here because of the wave issues. Loop the whole thing together with some braided mono loops and you are good to go. Look here for instuctions for the loop. http://www.danblanton.com/gettinglooped.html
Beaver
Good info so far. I too use shooting head systems for a lot of my saltwater fishing and some fresh water fishing . I can easily reach distances in the 80-100ft range and even farther. I use shooting heads with 5 through 13wt rods.
I use integrated lines like Teeny, S.A. Streamer Express, Rio Outbound Short, Airflo Depthfinder, etc too but prefer interchangeable shooting heads in situations where I may need to change between heads of different sink rates.
To connect heads to shooting lines I use loops as described on the link to Dan Blanton's site already given by Beaver. These double catch loops are very strong and go though the guides well.
A basic rule of thumb to match a shooting head to a rod for heads around 30ft in length is for the head to be about 2 line weights heavier than the rod. So for an 8wt you would use an ST-10 line or a custom cut line from around 280 to 300 grains. Most rods heavier than typical trout sizes load optimally with about 40-45 ft or so of the rated line extended. So you use the heavier head to compensate for the fact that you cannot extend that much line with the shooting head. Many rods will take heavier loads just fine and you can cast lighter loads but usually will not achieve greatest distance.
You will eliminate a lot of frustration if you have some sort of stripping basket or bucket, preferably with spikes or cones in the bottom. This will drastically reduce tangles. Something with a solid bottom that will hold a bit of water that will act as a lubricant will help some more.
I use mono type shooting lines for extreme distance or for quickest sink rates with sinking heads. I use the shooting lines that are more like thin level flyline for most work as they are easier to handle. My favorites are the Rio and Scientific Anglers intermediate shooting lines and the Scientific Anglers Sharkskin floating shooting line. Cortland and Airflo also make good shooting lines. You can use an intermediate shooting line with a floating head just fine.
Some shooting lines need to be stretched before using. Sometimes when fishing you will start to get coils in your shooting line that were not there when you started. This is a result of line twists building up in the line while casting. Line twists come from using an oval casting stroke, which is common to avoid getting hit by heavy heads, and by not casting all of the loose shooting line on every casts. I usually remove twists a few times during the day. There are a number of ways to do this.
A lot of people feel you can not be very accurate when casting shooting heads. However with practice you can develop accuracy. However as with regular lines, accuracy will still degrade as distance increases. It is very difficult to make a delicate presentation with shooting heads.
I wouldn't bother with a poly leader with a sinking shooting head. Level mono is just fine for use with sinking heads. A floating poly leader would be fine with a floating head but I see no advantage over a furled or single strand tapered leader. When using floating heads I tend to use twisted leaders, furled leaders, or a simple two step leader that consists of a 4ft section of 40 or 50lb mono such as Ande or Berkley Big Game that has a loop in the end to which I loop a tippet.
This is a great thread on a subject I know little about. A lot of good information. Now I have to go buy a shooting line. This flyfishing always finds a new way to get into my wallet! :cool:
Hi Dave!
Seach youtube, you can find alot of info. I fish a shooting head on my 6wt...its about 240grains and sinks like a stone. just a heads up....If the water is not fast enought, one just snags the bottom on every cast. fishing a clouser off a floating line and casting a shooting head, are totally different. Kelly Gallop used to tie all his patterns without any wight, becaused he used shooting heads, and full sink or sink tip lines. Its great for Saylorville (spillway) though- that water has a crazy high CFS! Good luck and remember typically shooting heads are fished one/ two line sizes up. the shooting line is very important. I personally use the Rio powerflex core shooting line. Alot of people have moved over to the "fly line" type of running lines. I have tried the mono and its not for me, however some people love it. as for the poly leaders- well, unless you were fishing a floater, you would not need them. I have no need for a floating shooting head, it would not change my ability to cast long, and I already have floating lines.
If you really want to fish the spillway more effectivly you owe it too yourself to look at a switch or spay/skagit rod. talk about easy to cast long, while fishing heavy tips, oh and the mending is blissful. I have a 12+footer that is magic- espically with that steep banks near the spillway! good luck
~Wes
Wes, do I know you? If not, sounds like I SHOULD! :-D
I'd like to hear more about your techniques, fly patterns, and what you catch below Saylorville.
Anyone have any experience with the Airflo Forty Plus lines?
Dave, we have not met. I live in Wdm. Some time this spring we can meet up.
Question Dave, Are you looking to cast longer? Or just looking for solutions for the spillway?....the limited back casting room?
If just looking for distance, the look for a shooting head. If looking for ways to beat that steep bank and limited back cast, look at some single hand Spey techniques. Shoot me a PM and we can meet up some time
I guess I'm looking to cast greater distance. There are times when the fish are just beyond my reach. I do some river/stream fishing, but most of my flyfishing is in still water (lakes, ponds, backwaters).
I don't flyfish the Spillway very often, but probably would if I had more success there. So, I'm interested to hear of your experiences there, if you don't mind sharing (either under a new thread, or PM...or whatever).
I have caught Wipers, walleye, crappie, white bass, smallmouth bass, carp, green sunfish, hybrid sunfish, bluegills and smallmouth buffalo on flies below the spillway. Sounds like a lot, but I really haven't caught much for numbers. Flycasting IS often an issue there.