Superabundance of fly lines: A rant

Over the last few years I have grown increasingly frustrated about the number of different types of fly lines available. It seems to me that this is confusing and frustrating to many anglers...including me. Some might say that this is an example of how fly line producers are striving to serve the diverse needs of many different types of anglers. Others would say that this is an example of marketing gone wild. I fall into the latter camp.

How bad is the problem? Well just for fun I spent 5 minutes looking online for RIO floating fly lines that are available online from fly shops.. (No offense to RIO. I suspect that my findings would apply to many of the other fly line companies, as well.) Here are the RIO floating fly lines that I could buy:

1. Grand
2. Gold
3. Selective Trout II
4. Trout LT
5. Avid Trout
6. Mainstream Trout
7. Bass
8. Smallmouth bass
9. Windcutter
10. Steelhead/salmon
11. Pike
12. Tropical Clouser
13. Tarpon
14. Windcutter spey
15. Outbound
16. Carp
17. Reedfish
18. Skagit Light MOW
19. Switch

Really? Do we need almost 20 different floating fly lines from a single company? How will we know which one to buy?

One of my pet peeves is that the boxes don't provide enough information to make an intelligent choice. For example, is the Selective Trout II appropriate for general purpose trout fishing in the West? I couldn't tell, and RIO customer service didn't know either. I made a mistake and bought one, and found out ($65 later) that it is not. Maybe I'm just not very clever, but RIO could have provided enough information so that even a fool like me would get it right.

If RIO (or any other company) feels the need to produce this many different lines, then I think it should be incumbent on them to provide clear information about the suitable uses for their products. For example, is fly line X appropriate for use with fast action graphite rods? medium action rods? bamboo?

There. I feel better now.

If you're not sure, you can ask the folks at your local flyshop, or forums like this. You'll usually get steered in the right direction.

Regards,
Scott

ps - I wonder myself how much different a lot of these lines are

... I started using Rio when I started fly fishing almost nine years ago and that is the only brand I use.

Personally, I think the Selective Trout II is an excellent fly line for general use in Idaho and Montana, and for me, I think it would work well in other parts of the West.

There are several things that have happened that bear on the situation you are describing, at least as it relates to Rio.

First, because of the growth of Spey and the addition of Simon Gawesworth to the Rio staff, some of Simon's ideas about Spey lines have crossed over into designing conventional fly lines. Or so it has seemed to me as I watched it happen over the past five or six years. That is just my impression, and maybe Rio would have something markedly different to say in that regard.

Second, when Sage decided to do the bass rod thing, their sibling Rio wanted to compete in that specialty, also.

Third, the growth of interest in fly angling for carp had a similar effect, adding new designs to Rio's line. I can tell you that one of my friends down in Idaho Falls helps coordinate the annual carp weekend down there and one of our mutual friends is the General Manager of Rio in Idaho Falls ( at least as of a couple years ago ). It's not hard for me to imagine Kinley talking to John about what he would like to see in a line designed for carp angling.

I think Scott's recommendation above is excellent advice - the part about bringing the question to the BB. Of course, I would have recommended the Selective Trout II or LT lines, so there you have it.

John

P.S. And then if you want to get into price point ( read Mainstream ) or rod action ( read Grande ) .....

You could always ignore all the advertising and hype and stick with one line, which is what I try to do. Just because something exists doesn't mean you have to factor it into your life, after all. You might find yourself in possession of more of your own money, even.

The number of fly lines available is directly related to fly fishing evolution towards specialization. Not a bad thing, but certaining confusing. The recommendation of using the bb is a good one. With the wealth of knowledge that resides here it just makes sense to tap into it. I know I have called on the gang here for help in choosing fly lines and I have yet to be dissappointed.

I do agree with your point about the manufacturers need for doing a better job of descibing the suitable of a particlur line.

Manufacturers do describe the line's possible application ( at least some do). I just wish they would microlabel each line for ease of identification.

Mark

If you dig around on RIO's updated web site, you should be able to find most of all the info you are looking for. It is assumed now-a-days that we are all computer litterate enough to surf a specific web site to obtain info self-service style.

aa

When all else fails (talkin trout angling now), grab a Cortland 444 Peach!:wink:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marco

Manufacturers do describe the line's possible application ( at least some do). I just wish they would microlabel each line for ease of identification.

Mark

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The first manufacturer to do so will get my business. I can't tell you how many times I forgot what I had on the spool and had to go to my local fly shop to have them weighed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TyroneFly

The first manufacturer to do so will get my business. I can't tell you how many times I forgot what I had on the spool and had to go to my local fly shop to have them weighed.

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The old Cortland Lazer lines were marked. Many Scientific Anglers lines are now marked with the SA-ID system.


And as to the original question, I appreciate the wide range of lines available. Although I could do an awful lot of fishing with just standard weight forward floating lines, the specialty lines definitely help make my angling more enjoyable and effective in many situations.

This is about the best and most understandable explanation of fly lines i've found.
http://www.flyfishusa.com/lines/choose-line-home.html
Personally, I simply look for WF lines in the right weight and use "Glide" fly line dressing. It's remarkable what good results you can get out of a cheap line properly cleaned and dressed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TyroneFly

The first manufacturer to do so will get my business. I can't tell you how many times I forgot what I had on the spool and had to go to my local fly shop to have them weighed.

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Orvis now has a "line ID" system. I saw it in the catalog they sent me this week.

http://www.orvis.com/store/shop.aspx...&shop_id=27891

Brian

The abundance of fly line choices is a good thing. Some of the specialized lines work very well for specific purposes.

The manufacturers make so many different lines that the stores that sell the lines are frequently selling discontinued fly lines at a discount. You can usually find a fly line that meets your needs on sale or closeout. For example, I really like RIO Clouser lines for bass and pike fishing, but RIO and other companies make other lines that are pretty similar. These types of lines seem to work better for me than standard weight forward lines when I am casting bulky flies for bass. I would much rather spend forty dollars for a Scientific Anglers bass bug fly line or a RIO Pike fly line on closeout than seventy dollars for a RIO Clouser line that will only last a year or two.

Yup, have to agree with BigA. I definitely prefer to have a wide array of choices than just a few lines to meet all needs. RIO has a pretty good web site that mostly spells out what the lines are made for, but this is again where the local fly shop (or even a remote one) comes in handy. Considering how popular RIO is these days, I do not know of a shop in my area that would not be able to spell out the best use for each line.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bgreer

Orvis now has a "line ID" system. I saw it in the catalog they sent me this week.

http://www.orvis.com/store/shop.aspx...&shop_id=27891

Brian

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Brian,

Thank you for the info. I have a 4 wt line that needs replacing.

I wish they'd all show the measurements of their tapers. Some do, most don't. The WF market is a nightmare. Some are like casting a Rapala. Some are nearly level.

All I need is a DT and a WF, one "standard" taper, in the weights that work on my rods. The terms "Tarpon", "Striper" "Redfish", and all that are meaningless. Just like "light, "medium", and "heavy" to describe rod actions. No two are alike, despite the name. Tarpon come in 5 lb sizes and 150 lb. sizes. Same line? I don't think so.

I agree with the OP. Make two or three tapers, put the best finish on them that's available, maybe make a WF that's stiffer for tropical applications, and let us all learn to cast them all. There's no reason other than marketing to have 10 or 15 different fly lines. PT Barnum would have done well in the fly line business!

And to the guy who said Cortland 444 peach---YES!

I, however, am one of those people who finds, after 35 years of doing this, that a DT floater works just fine in virtually every situation. I have TRIED specialized lines, and without exception replaced them with the DT that I had beforehand. The ads don't convince me that I need a special taper to throw a certain fly for a certain species with a certain rod. If that were the case, I wouldn't be catching anything now, would I?

Another vote for simplicity - DTs on my 3, 4, and 5 wts for dries and smaller nymphs and a WF on the 7 wt for fishing big nymphs. Also, a Class II full sinking line for streamer fishing.

This incredible variety is VERY helpful for those of us fishing two-handed rods.

I agree that they are confusing! It would help , in this era of "1/2 sizes larger" and "designed to load faster rods" that they would at least put the weight of the first 30 ft on the box so we would have some idea of what we are getting. As for being able to identify the line later, I always use a water proof marker to put a number of dots on the front part of the new line. The number is the alledged line weight. If a heavy line, use a wide mark (denoting 5 ) and then enough dots to get the line size.

I tend towards the minimalist school of thought, but I think the incredible variety of fly lines is great! I'll never need or use most of them, but part of the beauty of fly fishing is that we can make it as simple or as complicated, as narrow or varied, as we want. For some people having only a few basic choices would suck some of the joy out of it, and no one wants that. Personally, I just find a line geared towards the majority of my fishing and stick with it. All told, I probably like Cortland 444 best. My cardinal rule is, avoid the cheap, avoid the hyper-expensive. Cheap is rarely a bargain, and hyper-expensive is overkill (for me).

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Originally Posted by DeadDrifting

I wish they'd all show the measurements of their tapers. Some do, most don't. The WF market is a nightmare. Some are like casting a Rapala. Some are nearly level.

All I need is a DT and a WF, one "standard" taper, in the weights that work on my rods. The terms "Tarpon", "Striper" "Redfish", and all that are meaningless. Just like "light, "medium", and "heavy" to describe rod actions. No two are alike, despite the name. Tarpon come in 5 lb sizes and 150 lb. sizes. Same line? I don't think so.

I agree with the OP. Make two or three tapers, put the best finish on them that's available, maybe make a WF that's stiffer for tropical applications, and let us all learn to cast them all. There's no reason other than marketing to have 10 or 15 different fly lines. PT Barnum would have done well in the fly line business!

And to the guy who said Cortland 444 peach---YES!

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Hits the nail squarely on the head! A special line just for Carp? Get real. I love to fly fish and have been doing it my entire life, and it has quickly become evident that Fly Fishermen are some of the biggest suckers in the world. An average person in todays world trying to start out fly fishing, who perhaps didn't grow up making due with a hand-me-down rod and a level line, and who typically lacks any common sense, can easily be confused and priced out of even wanting to fly fish. Pick up a decent rod, a good quality DT or WF line AND LEARN HOW TO USE IT instead of trying to rely on "special" tapers and all that other BS. I freely admit that a bass bug or heavy front taper line makes it marginally nicer to cast big flies for a given line-weight. Opposite is true for delicate dry flies, etc. Either extreme can still be accomplished with a general-purpose line. Can't blame the manufacturers for making all this stuff, because they know fly fishermen will BUY IT! I know I've caught a pretty big bucketload of different species of fish over the decades using "normal" fly lines. I've switched between surface flies, nymphs, and streamers using the same line in the space of an hour and caught fish on all of them.

Well Rio no longer makes the Selective Trout II line. I think it was replaced by the Trout LT and this is what their website says about that line. Although I use the Selective Trout II on my 5wt Scott G and have taken it to CO and did not once think I had the wrong fly line.
A long, delicate front taper ensures the softest of presentations
Perfect for fishing dry flies, soft hackles, emergers, small nymphs and chironomids
An excellent line for roll and single-handed spey casting
The ultimate presentation fly line

Also, I think Feather Craft's catalog does a pretty good job describing what trout fly line might go best with the type of fly rod you are using. As far as specialty lines are concerned, if you don't fish for carp, tarpon, bonefish or steelhead, etc., what does it matter?

Those who would fault the line manufacturers for making such a wide variety of lines generally have a common trait: They fish one way for one species in one geographic area. If all I did was fish for trout in mid-sized streams, the standard WF or DT lines of 20 years ago would work fine for me.
But the world is a big place, and many saltwater anglers, for instance, need fly lines that are designed for 85 degree water; the coldwater trout lines behave like over-cooked spaghetti in warm water.
A guy throwing Clousers or bass bugs really benefits from a torpedo-type taper; someone on a spring creek will catch more fish with a finer presentation; Spey casters almost have to have a specialized line, or their method is futile; beginners may want some choice in line costs; and the different sink tip weights make matching different the water depth to the fly line much easier.
Sure, the variety forces the single-use angler to do some reading and ask some questions before he chooses a new line. That's the price of progress.

Well said, idlerick. Maybe it will remind folks that the fly fishing universe is HUGE and most of us occupy only a very small part of it.

John

All I fish is fresh water, cold and warm, and I've never found a thingmy silk lines won't do, most often nearly to perfection. HOWEVR!!!!! while I'm not a great experimenter when it comes to fly fishing for the better part of 40 years I had to try almost every new gadget & gizmo that came on the market for shooting the following: Long range smokeless riflery, BPCR when it first got going and we were "re-discovering" the art of shooting black powder cartridges, and revolvers for long range and hunting. Therefore, I understand the huge quantity of lines out there from both the manufacturers and end users standpoint. I had a pile of fun shooting and learning and I bet those who go through so many lines have the same fun.....and find out what works for them in the process!

at a cost of $50 to $70 or more for each of these "specialty" lines, most people are not going to be able to go through a lot of lines to find out what works for them, and this just continues to propagate the idea that fly fishing is elitist and extremely expensive. Based on my experiences fly fishing in cold, hot, fresh, salt, small streams, oceans, rivers, clear, muddy, fast, slow, deep, shallow, shore, boats, wading..... I would say the large majority of fly fishermen won't realize enough advantage of one of these specialty lines versus a so-called normal WF or DT line to justify the expense. When I saw the "Carp" line for the first time, I just laughed...Totally marketing driven to try to make another buck because of contemporary COOL status of fly fishing for carp--- what are generally used for carp? #12 to #6 nymph and crayfish patterns... can't effectively present those on an everyday WF line?

I'm absolutely not saying there shouldn't be a wide selection of lines available, because there should be. To put out a line such as the Carp is totally fad-driven though. Probably marketing genius- make a small inexpensive change, write a couple of sentences, and market it directly at the hype-of-the-day in the FF world.

As a shooter of BPCR and therefore a student of the period, you've no doubt heard the saying "Beware the man with only one gun, because he knows how to use it!" Same concept can be applied to FF, although none of us would want to be so limited--- the idea is learn to use one outfit effectively across a multitude of conditions, and you will truly become good at what you do.

The marketing of lines seems to push the idea that a person WILL NOT be effective unless they have a specialty line for every possible condition which is just a load of crap.

good thing I don't make my living in the marketing world, because I wouldn't make much of a living!!!

If it were up to me I would seldom use much more than an "ought", a five or a ten weight rod with a level line or a shooting head system...(notice SELDOM). However, rest assured, there is plenty crap to sort thru to get to those items in the FF quiver around here. Add to that that the GF is still new enough at FF'ing to have to experiment and be facinated by most of the newest and greatest. Let us just say that I am often catching heII for not waiting at the PU (which is needed to carry ALL of the junk) while she assembles the latest and greatest.....time's a'wasteing, let's git to the water....NOW. ;-)
....lee s.
PS - Just now she wanted to load MORE stuff for a non-fishing trip......just in case. Welllllll.....in the PU (my quiver) we carry an ought,a three, a four, a six, a nine, and a ten weight and varoius lines to toss with each. And she asks, "can we BOTH fish any situation?" I am sorta in trouble again as my reply started out with "well, if'n we can't........" ;-)

I prefer the (over)abundance to the situation in the '50s before 444 Peach made the scene. There were different, now defunct, makers like Sunset Line and Gladding, but overlooking silk, there were just coated nylons and SciAng 2 series and the predecessor to the 333. Even the Orvis and HL Leonard lines were repackaged lines, with no mods at all.

hp
les