I know this is a little bit off topic but i figured i might get some opinions. I am looking to get a bird dog for upland birds. I am looking at pointing labs because i love labs but what are your opinions on bird dogs?
CD
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I know this is a little bit off topic but i figured i might get some opinions. I am looking to get a bird dog for upland birds. I am looking at pointing labs because i love labs but what are your opinions on bird dogs?
CD
Not sure what you want in a dog. Setter, Pointer, Flusher or Retriever? I know from experience that a Vizsla can do it all.
http://www.google.com/images?q=vizsl...w=1440&bih=702
cdpaul,
I have no doubt that there are dogs that have proven themselves excellent uplanders in just about all the hunting breeds. I have German Short-haired pointers, which will hunt anything you allow them to by law. My dogs will go from a field situation (pheasants/quail/doves) to a woods situation(grouse/woodcock) without skipping a beat. Many times I have had pheasants resort to hiding in the woods. These dogs Will root them out. Last year I got a turkey ( target of opportunity) out of a flock they had pointed in a thick corn field. Even though they have short coats I hunt them into February with no ill effects and I do not put any kind of vest on them either. They are big running dogs that can also slow down to work the coverts. They have shown plenty of interest in waterfowl also (sometimes too much when I'm hunting grouse close to streams!). I always thought that when I finally got around to getting a bird dog that I would get a Brittany Spaniel, but as fate would have it I got my two GSPs instead. I don't regret it. They are good family dogs as well. Mine love all the neighborhood kids. My 2 GSPs are 4yrs old, males and litter mates, also not neutered. I added that to let you know that they don't seem to have any territorial issues with each other - which is good! I have pictures but I need to get them off my cell phone!!!! BTW, they also retrieve. Best regards, Dave S.
My grandpa has a vizla, i love hunting with it but only get to a few times a year because of the distance away and sports. I was looking a a brittany spaniel at one point too. Never thought of the german short haired pointer. Thanks
Brittanies are great critters. There's no doubt. But, you have to take really good care of their long coats. Short hairs are a lot easier to care for. Just my 2 cents.
My Brittany is the best dog I've ever owned. Always ready to hunt and always reluctant to come out of the field. And, they're called the "4 wheel drive dog" because they can take any sort of terrain or water.
This is all good information and all the choices here are great. What ever you choose, let them know who's boss and love them to pieces. I promise, they will be your best friend for a long time.
Whatever breed you choose look for a breeder who raises dogs that like to work close. Thoss field trial champions that cover so much ground are useless in a grouse covert. Part of that is training but a good part of it is breeding too. Talk to hunters who have dogs you like and ask where they got them and how dificult were they to train. A really stubborn hardheaded dog is not what you want for your first attemp to train a hunting dog unless you can afford a professional trainer. You want a dog who will look to you and want to be working were he can see you. Of course, after I write this my dog will be half a mile out front tommorow.
any dog has the potential to be a good dog. i have a lab that is a fantastic upland hunter, i taught him to be a semi-pointing lab, i still prefer flushers. the main point, pun intended, is to get help training the dog if you have not done it before. it will make the difference of having a great day in the field or a frustrating day. i've been on both side of that one. my first field dog as a setter, he was from field trial stock and was a hardheaded, big running dog, great for field trials but not so good for grouse. so know your breed stock and get a pro to help you at first.
I would have to vote for the Brittney. Most are much smaller than most Labs but work every bit as hard and will cover as much ground at the end of the day. I have had 4 of them with the last 2 living in the house with us full time, that includes the cars, truck, and camper. I don't know what kind of upland hunting you will be doing, but mine have hunted pheasants and quail and some woodcock, with enthusiasm and endurance beyond my own. They adapt to family living and sometimes you will swear that they can talk to you and understand what you are feeling even with out words. My current dog is around 13 or 14 years old, but I am not sure, because he came from a shelter here, and has been the best dog I have every had and it is very hard for both of us to see him having difficulties aging. Every one has their own favorites but those who advocate the Britts are hard to convince otherwise for a reason.
My stepson has 3 English Pointers that he hunts with, and they do a fantastic job. But, they are large, very energetic, and need lots of room and exercise.
I have 2 huge black labs, but they aren't very good hunters. They like to romp and play too much, then sleep the rest of the day.
And I have a large German Dachshund who is courageous to the point of stupidity. He will tackle anything, no matter what size. He has assaulted bears (and run them off, believe it or not), wild hogs, several would-be burglars, cattle, horses, and Pit Bulls...and he is miraculously still alive (albeit with many stitches, and a permanent pass to the Animal Clinic. He gets frequent flyer miles now). He is excellent at running game, and he will retrieve....he just won't hand it over. He flushes birds, runs hogs, trees coons, squirrels, and if there is any skunk within a mile or two of me, he will find it. My wife keeps several cans of tomato juice handy just for such an occasion (the only thing that removes the smell from your skin). He will even jump out of the canoe to take on snapping turtles in their own environment (like I said, all cojones and no brains).
For birds (and your own piece of mind), I would recommend the Pointers.......
Bruno....still crazy after all these years
Attachment 5982
Blackie and Trixie....bringing laziness to a science
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...orVideo011.jpg
Storm....my best hunter, and a birds worst nightmare
Attachment 5983
Your Bruno is my Whiz, long gone. Same dog, except you still have yours. Loved him. I have to ask what breed is Storm? Just beautiful (I'm becoming a cat fancier in my old age.)
Hugs,
LF
Deanna,Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyFisher
Have you considered one of these?
http://www.absolutelybengals.com/pages/bengalhist.html
I don't know why all my pictures didn't post correctly. They should have showed up the same. Oh, well...
I have no idea what breed Storm is. She came home as a very small kitten, inside the engine of my stepsons truck. She was obviously abandoned, and probably crawled up under the hood to get warm. She was tiny enough to fit in the palm of my hand. When we heard noise coming from under the hood of my Stepsons truck, after he drove it home from work, we lifted the hood, and she jumped straight into my arms. We were both terrified!! Now she weighs around 28 pounds.
Here is my other cat, who also came to use by misadventure. This is Cali (short for calico). She was stuffed into a plastic bag and thrown out of a car window moving at 60+ miles per hour, in front of the house. Her nose was broken, and she had many internal injuries. I was up for 48 hours straight, trying to save her. Luckily, I was successful (nearest Vet was an hour away...she wouldn't have made it).
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...ors/Calli1.jpg
All of my animals came to us through misadventures. I just try to provide a comfortable home for them, and don't ask anything of them in return (except for using the litter boxes, and staying in the yard).
I've owned Beagles, Beagle/Springer cross, Labs, Germans Shorthairs, Cockers, Chihuahuas and Walkers. if you have room and love those Labs they are the best in my opinion. My Shorthairs were good but the one I kept longest was too strong headed for his own good. Let me explain. The female, was a great hunter while the male who was by far the showiest, wanted to range far and wide. Even professional training couldn't break that habit as well as his affinity for domestic birds as well as game. His undoing came when he got out and went to a neighbors and killed all his prize show bunnies. Luckily by then I no longer owned him so the new owner had to pay damages and put the dog down. As Labs go I've had six now, used them for both upland (Ruffed, Woodcock, Ringnecks, Huns and Chukars) as well as Duck and Geese. The one I worked with the most was smarter about birds than I was and the best of family pets to boot. She pointed naturally and in side by side work, outshined a friends Brit and anothers Spring regularly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdpaul
Nova Scotia DuchToller
Dogs are the only animals that were created by humans, over the eons; humans turned the wolf into the dogs that we know today. Each of the breeds of dogs where breed by careful selection for breed the best characteristics of the dog, for the purpose of the human.
Terriers were breed for vermin control of the farmer, protecting the crops in the field and in the storage bins. Other dogs were breed for war, guarding flocks, work dogs pulling carts, defending home sites, ect.
Labradors Retrievers are from Newfoundland, and where breed as Boat Dogs, to go out with the fisherman on the sea. The dog wore a body harness with a rope attached to the harness and to the boat. If the fisherman was knocked off the boat (sailing vessels) it was the dogs duty to jump into the water to bring the attach rope to the fisherman, so he could pull himself back onto the boat before it sailed out of sight. Yes Labs can be good hunting dogs, but it all depends on their ancestral lineage.
I had a hunting dog where both the male and the bitch where field grand champions. The only problem was that the male was a Labrador Retriever and the bitch was a Beagle! My hunting dog was the size of a Beagle with the shape of a Labrador Retriever, was a natural at not moving of flinching when the gun went off, and brought back the birds that I had downed. When I joined the Army I gave my hunting dog to a friend who lived on a farm, when years later I paid a visit "Tippy" (he had a white tip on his tail) was glad to see me as soon as I got out of the car, but he was not my dog anymore!
Get some library books on dog breeds, to see which will best meet your needs/wants/desires. Believe it or not, a full size French Poodle is a hunting dog for fowl, the hair cut of the French Poodle was to remove the body hair to help the poodle swim to retrieve the ducks, geese, and swans. The hair was left around the joints to help prevent the poodle from developing arthritis from the cold water. The Dachshund was breed to go down the badger hole after the badger.
So when you chose on a breed, look in to the ancestral linage and whether the linage is for hunting or for show. You do not want a show dog, or a dog with spotty ancestral lineage. Most States have Kennel Societies of Breeders, to help you with finding the right dog to match with your personality. The time effort and money will be well worth it. You want a dog that will not display behavior problems or have inherited medical conditions!
Once you have selected the right dog, have a veterinarian give the dog a complete examination before the sale is finalized! The time and the money spend will be worth the effort. It is the least that you can do, after all, the dog is man's best friend! ~Parnelli
Alright, I know it's off the normal topics but this is a great thread.
I have owned a few dogs in my life and hunted with guys that have owned a lot more. my personal recommendation is that you get a dog with a short coat, ie a German shorthair, vizula, wiemeraner, German wirehair, or an english pointer. The reason behind this is that there are great dogs of every species, so the best thing that you can do is pick on that is easy to own. Being that I am reasonably young, I don't mind a dog that covers a bit of ground as long as he can hold a point when he finds a bird. The previously mentioned dogs will all have a tendency to do just that. (as a matter of fact the vizula, wiemeraner, wirehair and GSP are all members of the same family and so closely related that you could consider them the same dog with different paintjobs) My one of my German Shorthairs would sometimes range up to a 1/4 of a section when we were out hunting, but he would also hold a point until hell froze over, so it didn't really matter to me how far he went as long as I could find him. Living in Nebraska, I have hunted on days when it was so cold that they kept the kids home from school so they wouldn't get frostbite at the bus stop. I never had any issues with my dog getting dangerously cold (although it could be that he just outlasted me because on the really cold days I didn't want to stay out too long). They are a very high energy breed, which can be both a good and a bad thing, they are wonderful around families, can retrieve as well as a lab on both land and water, and have one of the best noses of any breed. But the main thing for easy of ownership is that their short fur doesn't collect burrs like anything with long hair does. I have had my dog out hunting with a buddy who swore by Irish Setters and when we were done hunting I spent the next 2 hours sitting drinking whisky and petting my dog while I watched him pulling and tugging at the cockleburrs in his dog's coat. he finally got mad and cut the burrs out, leaving him with a dog that looked little like it had the mange for the next 2 months. of course this problem can easily be remedied by keeping the dogs coat clipped close to the skin, but then again that is an extra hassle. All long haired dogs have this problem with the exception of possibly the wirehair and maybe a lab because of the coarseness of the hair. Spaniels in general tend to be smaller than most pointers and therefor also tend to range a little less, mainly because the don't cover ground as fast.
I have only had very limited exposure to pointing labs, and my general impression was that while they did a decent job, they were a bit out of place in the upland fields. It was sort of like people who use butter knives as screwdrivers. Sure it works, but is it really the best tool for the job?
anyway, thats just my rambling, too tired to be posting, been up all night thoughts on the subject... I hope I have helped a little, and I am sure I will have to edit because somebody il tell me that I am misinformed about something. but I'll save that for when i am awake...
I have a close friend who is a breeder. They are cool looking cats. Unfortunately, they are still cats. ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotech
Wow you are hearing a lot about fancy breeds, dogs that are easy to control and dogs that aren't, dogs that have some bad habits and dogs that don't. Hog wash. Every dog needs a master, a pack leader and if you aren't going to be the pack leader the dog will lead you.
When it comes to breeds for hunting, any type of hunting, the Beagle tops the list IMO. They are one of the most intelligent breeds, they learn easily, they are eager to hunt. Beagles are tenacious when it comes to protecting their pack be it from human or animal threat. I once saw the results of two beagles holding a 350 pound bear at bay to protect their master. Both dogs were bloodied but they held the aggressive bear at bay until the game wardens arrived.
I had my last beagle trained to hunt rabbits and upland birds. She excelled at flushing birds in front of the hunter, well within shotgun range and she retrieved them as well. We had a small problem with her being gun-shy at first but that is easily cured through patient training with live firing of the guns. Her other habit of running deer was cured with an old deer hide and dog in a barrel then slowly rolled around the yard. Stormy really seemed to enjoy hunting grouse but again she was just reflecting the mood of her master who happens to love hunting rouse even if he can't hit the darned things!
For those who think beagles won't retrieve birds take a look at the one here. Not mine but sure wish it was:
http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs22/f/20...alaxplavax.jpg
The only place I never tried a beagle on waterfowl but then we are talking upland hunting here.