Does anyone have a chart showing what size jungle cock nails are used for what size flies?
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Does anyone have a chart showing what size jungle cock nails are used for what size flies?
I've never heard of such a critter. Doesn't mean that there isn't one, just hat I have never heard of one.
I have a package of each size and use the ones that look right.
i also use the size that looks right
i think fishngene is asking for a size of jungle cock feather to use with what size hook, not if they are endangered or how long it takes to grow one.
have we lost sight of what is the actual question?
if it's any help here's a salmon fly proportion chart.
http://www.skogmus.no/innhold/jf/MSO...oportions.html
Sully, by "critter" I meant "chart". I wasn't very clear.
Actually, I went and did some searching and found that the birds do not need to be killed for these feathers at all. They are molted once a year, I think it was. Of course, if you want a neck, the bird is toast. I would be happy to feed someone's bird for a year or so for teh feathers that fell off. :)
I also found that some folks have had to go to extreme measures to prove the origins of JC nails used on salmon flies they have tied for export. That could be difficult to do with a 10 pack of nails from the local fly shop.
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I just look at it, and place a feather there, if it looks right, it gets tied in. Kind of like hanging pictures...I eye for level...and then it goes on the wall.
Thanks all for your help. Sully I'm not trying to wipe out the bird. Just looking to ty a few flys for a presentation.
If you are really committed to the classic fly patterns that call for Jungle Cock, be prepared to shell out over a $100 or more for a Grade A+ cape, and be comfortable with who you are dealing with. Jungle Cock Capes are graded A, B, C, D.
Grading has to do with the quality and coloration of the nails. The nails (what they call the Jungle Cock hackle) should not have any splits on a grade A or A+.
I normally eye-ball the nails according to my need for a fly pattern, and the hook size and length.
Another bonus by purchasing a Jungle Cock cape, is the Grey hackle that make very nice wings.
All Jungle Cock that is sold is raised commercially, just the same as the hen and rooster capes you purchase.
Parnelli
Otherwise you can purchase the fake Jungle Cock for a lot less that are printed on plastic coated paper, for fishing quail flies! I know there are those that say you can substitute other feathers with some messing around. Bottom Line, if the pattern calls for Jungle Cock, you have to use Jungle Cock for the best results. That is one of the prices of "Dressing Hooks! Look on the bright side, the cost of a Jungle Cock nail is about what you pay for one hook.
kb:
Better yet, just pluck the feathers when you need them and let the bird start growing a new one. Have you ever tried to collect molted feathers of captive raised birds? Me thinks not!
Cheers,
Frank
Steven:
How about providing the references for the studies that support your statement that "...if the pattern calls for Jungle Cock, you have to use Jungle Cock for the best results.".
Thanks,
Frank
Can't argue with that, but there is one guy on Ebay that does collect the feathers as they molt. He is a Top Rated Seller and goes by "silvermag". Since I have a swap coming up where I need Jungle Cock, I will order some from him and let folks know how they look when I get them.
Now, I have not tried any of the feather substitutes, but the printed mylar nails just don't look as good. It might not matter to the fish, but it does to me.
kb:
Unless you are "right there" when the feathers come out, it can be a real hassle. First, if the birds are "free range, i.e., have a large pen to move around in, the feathers can be scattered everywhere. If they are cage raised, as are the 'genetic" roosters, molted feathers can readily, and rapidly, be soiled by the bird's own droppings. If, on the other hand, you are collecting molted tail and wing primaries and secondaries form birds such as any and all of the pheasants, to include turkeys,& peafowl, bustards, ducks, geese, swans, macaws, etc., you are now talking a different ballgame altogether. I had a friend years ago who raised and showed a fancy breed of pigeon that has really nice feathers for a leech pattern that I came up with. It turned out that collecting molted feathers was less than productive. I subsequently asked him to save a dead bird or two for me to pluck; which he did. So much simpler, faster, and easier on the knees. It wasn't too many years ago to that I decided to save the molted soft body feathers of an amazon parrot I owned to see how they would work as softhackle (great I might add). It too was a real pain. Jungle Cock nails would be expected to be as bad, or worse, due to the small size of some of them. Not knowing precisely what feathers "silvermag" picks up after they are molted, I can't believe that anyone would go the the trouble. How about a link to him, as you aroused my curiosity?
I have used the small white spotted black "cape" hackles from a cock Mearn's qauil and colored the spot with a 3 136 Pantone pen with very good results. Still have a couple of necks squirreled away.
Cheers,
Frank
Can't argue a bit, Frank.
I agree 100% I have a neighbor giving me macaw feathers and the washing, drying, etc. is a pain, but they are so darned pretty! If this guy is willing to pickup the feathers and sell them at the price he is, then I will certainly let him. The cost is going to average between $.20 and $.40 per feather.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Jungle-Cock-Eye-...item5ad1aa3381
There are some others that have a tighter count, but for what I need, this will be much less expensive than running across town to pay $1.20 a piece for the nails. Since he is a Top Rated Seller, I will take my chances. You don't get to be Top Rated by ticking folks off.
I got a Jungle Cock cape on Ebay for 40 or 45 dollars, it was worth the price...I got a few good feathers with no splits. You can fix the splits...it beats paying a hundred bucks or more to me.
I do the very same thing; and I have never turned down free freshly molted peacock feathers! Cleaning a few nice feathers now and then is one thing, but to collect, clean, dry and sort enough feathers to be able to commercially market them is an entirely different matter. If that is his "thing", then more power to him.
I am with you on the price thing, and agree with kelkay on fixing splits. The only way I would pay $1.20 per feather would be if I did full dress salmon flies, but I don't. In fact, I have only tied one pattern over the years that called for them, and I substituted the Mearns' quail feathers. Must have done OK with the Pantone pen as the fish did NOT snub them! (Maybe they were illiterate and, therefore, had not read our pattern books that specify what items to use.) I also agree with your thoughts about his being a Top Rated Seller. Thanks for the link; will check his site out.
As a historical note, there was an individual back in the '80's and '90's who ran a plantive ad in the exotic bird magazines begging people with macaws to please send him the molted feathers from their birds. He was especially interested in the tail feathers. He contended that he was sending the feathers back to South America to be distributed among the indigenous natives for them to use in their traditional headdresses in an effort to spare the wild birds from being killed just for their feathers. At the same time, he was running a nice ad in the fly fishing magazines offering prime macaw feathers to the fly tiers. Haven't seen his ad selling the feathers in a year or so, and no longer see the exotic bird magazines.
i picked up a grade b jc cape at the fly fishing show in marlborough mass. paid $51. it is of good quality but probably not for museum type flies. i'll use it for some streamers and such. the fish wont care. :D
Here's a couple of capes
If the alternative we're talking about is the plastic printed eyes, I think it qualifies in either category. I used them back in the 80's, and they had the nasty habit of turning streamers into spinning lures -- not very good for the leader, and I don't remember ever catching a fish on a fly tied with them.
There are other alternatives (at least for streamers) that work just as well for fish catching ability, such as painting eyes on the head.
I'm not sure there is any substitude for JC on a Letort style jassid, though.
Where did you purchase these capes?
They were purcasesd In Sackville Nova Scotia at a local fly fishing meeting
This may not answer your question - but it may give you another option - have you ever used starling as a jungle cock substitute?