Help Adding Distance to Casts

When i first started out FF I began by self-learning all the basics on casting and have slowly progressed... short, roll, reach, steeple, single haul, double haul etc. (Double haul is a work in progress but coming along.) I can currently throw about 60ft comfortaby and accurately before mechanics start to fall apart.

I often fish warm-water, larger lakes and rivers from the bank, and when blind casting would like to cover more water or reach particular areas from shore that the only way I can put a fly on the spot is with a good long cast (submerged blow downs, weed beds, cruising pods of carp etc)

I have been through all of the great casting info on this site, and was wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of a good resource (book, dvd, etc) that they have used to add some length to their cast. I would like to add 15 to 20 feet if I could.

I practice a couple of times a week, and do not have any local knowledge resource available to me (instructor, club). Thanks for any input you can throw my way!

Well, the obvious solution, finding a competent instructor, seems to be out. That leaves a couple other options that I can see.

1. Videotape yourself casting, or have someone tape you. From both sides, from the front, while you are casting at your limit. Send the tape to a pro, like JC here.

2. Come to a fish-in and ask for assistance. This not only gets you assistance but you get to meet and fish with all those nice people.

3. Find a REALLY big riser a couple feet beyond what you can reach, and imagine how big that fish is, and how it would feel to catch it... incentive!

Dynamics of fly casting by Joan Wulff is an excellant dvd. I was also self taught and it helped me.

Going for distance is all about mechanics and a good double haul. the end of the dvd also shows you some flaws and how to correct them. I highly recommend it.

as your mechanics improve distance will come, and it will also make those shorter
distances easy to hit in in tough conditions

Being a person who lives in an area with limited fly fishing resources , I can understand your position. I do agree that Joan Wulff's DVD is great. But if your a book worm like me , Master The Cast by George V. Roberts Jr is the best I've seen. The way it studies the mechanics that make up the cast and builds on each lesson and each technique is terrific. I do agree theres no replacement for hands on time with an instructor , but if thats not an option theres always a way to find your own instruction. Just my 2 cents.

One last resort. Get mad. Really mad. At yourself, fate, casting in general, whatever. Decide you will cast so hard that you will destroy the &%$# rod on the next cast. You will 'make' the leader sizzle on the way past your ear. Stand up straight. Stop the ^%$# rod. Quit babying the fly rod! Hit it! Quit casting like a girl! Step up to it. Either you can cast or you can't; which will it be? Start listening for the backing knot to rip through the guides like a machine gun. :) A double-haul is never in progress. Either you can or not. :)

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Originally Posted by J Castwell

One last resort. Get mad. Really mad. At yourself, fate, casting in general, whatever. Decide you will cast so hard that you will destroy the &%$# rod on the next cast. You will 'make' the leader sizzle on the way past your ear. Stand up straight. Stop the ^%$# rod. Quit babying the fly rod! Hit it! Quit casting like a girl! Step up to it. Either you can cast or you can't; which will it be? Start listening for the backing knot to rip through the guides like a machine gun. :) A double-haul is never in progress. Either you can or not. :)

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Unless they casts like LadyFisher!! <Does she know you used this as a reference?>:p

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Originally Posted by Betty Hiner

Unless they casts like LadyFisher!! <Does she know you used this as a reference?>:p

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I'm with you Betty,
Does Joan know what you said Jim? Maybe stop casting mamby pamby. Go for the gusto. And, stop the rod like you were doing 80mph into a brick wall. Doing what you taught me, I hit 70 feet with a double haul on a 7 1/2 foot 4 weight glass rod today. Practice & stop the rod, practice & stop the rod, practice & stop the rod. Those are the 3 most important factors of improvement.
Yes Jim, I think I am getting better at it.
Thank You,

Good evening K3
A couple of sugestions to
add distance to your cast,
distance is proportional to line speed
therefore you must increase line speed.

And the easiest way to do this is first
learn to understand what your rod is trying to tell you
the message its sending you via the grip

And to listen
the easiest way, the quickest way
is to close your eyes !

And keep them closed and keep casting for at least 10 minutes.
then you will feel the message of on load, off load.

Then start double hauling with your eyes closed.

All of a sudden you will understand.

JC suggested the stop,
its called the 'snap' in casting.
With your eyes closed you will feel the message
if
you stop the rod, snap the rod during the stroke
AND
don't drift to a stop.

When I teach, almost the first thing I get someone to do is close their eyes, as it speeds up the learning curve.

Kind regards,
UB

Good one JC, ... Deanna must have loved that one !!!

A hint ... when I want DISTANCE, ... I don't concentrate on my forward cast, ... I concentrate on the BACKCAST ... after all ... that's the part that will "pre-determine" how good the forward cast will/can be!

A coach or friend who can diagnose your cast is a must. LF and JC watched me cast for a few seconds then recommended a few ideas that helped me correct 30 years of mistakes !!

When I first got interested in long-distance casting I took lessons from a well-known tournament caster. As it turns out, my casting got worse and worse, as the instructor didn't fully understand his own techniques. Therefore, the changes he made in my casting were detrimental.

So what does that mean? Yes, take lessons, watch DVD, read books, but in the end don't be surprised if you'll have to experiment on your own; and this can be very, very frustrating: The slightest casting defect can ruin your long-distance cast

And keep in mind it's very difficult to analyze casting problems on an internet bulletin board as the same symptom can have several different causes.

Also, Lefty and Joan use different styles, so I pick one and go with it. INMHO, Joan's will make it easier for an angler to change casting trajectories, Lefty's style, on the other hand, is easier to learn.

Randy

Randy

As far as books go, I really like Jason Borger's "The Nature of Fly Casting".

And if I could get 60 feet consistently I'd be happy. Then I'd start wondering how many fish were in the water between me and the end of that 60' cast.

Another easy way? Watch JC or LF cast. A few minutes with them and you'll be surprised at the improvements!

FWIW ... it's not rocket surgery. Be open to change, be quiet, pay attention, go for it! Quit trying so hard.

For distance casting, I don't have much to add to what has already been said.

I will say the vast majority of fish I catch are inside of 50'. Perhaps I don't fish the same type of water and I've never gone after salt water fish so I'm not sure there.

I will say accuracy, presentation and stealth are the weapons I use with accuracy being high on the list. Also, I always start close in and progressively work my way out to longer casts and when I reach my limit, I then move a few feet down the shore or up/down the river. If you start 60' away and hook a fish, you'll scare off everything that is between you and that fish also, the longer fight tires the fish out more and increases the odds of the fish getting off.

I shoot rifles in competition and there is a correlation between distance and accuracy. For example, if your rifle shoots a 1" group at 100 yards (approximately 1 minute of angle), that same rifle can be expected to shoot a 5" group at 500 yards (same MOA).

With casting, you can hit a paper plate at 30', your accuracy would logically expand to about the size of a garbage can lid at 60' and the size of a small kiddie pool at 90'.

A lot of the warm water areas I fish, the hole in the moss or weeds that I'm trying to hit is usually about the size of a garbage can lid. I try to keep within 30-50' of these so that I can have a realistic chance of landing the fly where I want it.

I know there are guys and gals out there who can hit a paper plate at 90' but I'm not one of them. I compensate with stealth and shorter casts.

Just a thought.

Jeff

There really is a secret 'code' of proprietary' secrets to teaching casting. A very select group of individuals possess this knowledge. Closely guarded and never totally revealed, they are what makes them seem so superior to those of the cretinous commoners. Confusing buzz words and ambiguous phrases designed only to confuse and mystify.
To create and assure this discipline they flood the sport with useless pulp fiction. Proof is simple to establish, simply watch any two DVD and notice the exact opposite elements being taught. Or just use simple reasoning; who do you know that can cast exactly like 'Lefty' or 'Joan'? They have been trying for decades to produce 'clones'. How well have they done. That you can not cast exactly as either of them may be a blessing, run with that, then build on it.
I, on the other hand, have no such problems as no one has even thought to cast as I do or been led in that direction. So, now you should be content with possessing the real inside scoop on how to cast. :)

To quote John Daly "Grip it and rip it"

I liked the rifle analogy....

That being said, I know/knew guys who could shoot into 6 inches, consistently, at 1,000 yards...saw a man put five shots throgh one hole with a Garand at 100 yards firing prone....

Not everyone can do that. Nor can everyone be taught to do that.

Basic skills, yes, but some guys have that special something in their physical systems that allows them the abilities to 'get it' and then excell that many just don't have.

It's the same with fly casting, or any physical endeavor. Maybe 60 feet is all you can do...maybe with practice you can get to 90...some guys can get to 100 with only minimal instruction...a lot of it depends on the person.

It's a 'physical' skill. It's not just the rod, nor is it just mechanics. It's timing, feel, and apptitude, also...some times that can't be 'taught', and sometimes it can't be learned or even 'figured out' either.

Do your best and don't sweat it. Sounds like you are practicing and doing what you can. Keep doing that, but if you can't 'reach' those off shore targets, maybe you'll have to find an alternate solution.

Boat? Tube? Toon? I do know that hooking a bass with ANY fly rod is tough out past fifty feet or so...something else to consider.

Good Luck!

Buddy

I don't think of myself as a great caster nor am I remotely qualified to teach anyone about casting. But when I commited to learning how to double haul, my distance casting improved 10-fold. It was the one single thing that finally "clicked" that helped me get some distance and feel what is going on during a cast.

Don't worry about your cast just go fishing as often as possible....that's how I learned.

There are many great points being made as well as some ideas. They are all appreciated. My main issue is that I live in an area that is overwhelmingly gear fishing oriented and I struggle to find local resources to help improve facets of my casting. (I meet many people very curious about this 'fly fishing thing'...but I never have to worry about getting crowded out!) Everything I have come by(right or wrong!) so far is self-taught. There is satisfaction in that alone, but I am simply always on the lookout for new ways to learn and improve:) Thanks again for all the input!

Try this http://www.sexyloops.co.uk/cgi-bin/t.../ikonboard.cgi ;)

Bill O.

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Originally Posted by K3's

I can currently throw about 60ft comfortaby and accurately before mechanics start to fall apart.

(submerged blow downs, weed beds, cruising pods of carp etc)

I would like to add 15 to 20 feet if I could.

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Sixty foot conformably excellent, as someone mentioned above you are B.E.H.I.
beyond external human influences lol,


Please describe your rod and line, might be time for a change,

As for myself, I really like and cast Mastery WF-9-F
distance on my Orvis Trident PM10+
and Cortland 333HT WF8F Bass on a Lamiglas F907

The eight weight is slower and a real slinger under low cover
65 foot casts are a breeze.

The nine weight Trident is my all around practice/fish stick, nice, fast and crisp,
seventy five foot casts I'd bet would feel as easy as your 60-footers did!
I'd lay money down on you if you had this rod,,, I feel like a bass pro salesmen ::))


Are you throwing a sinker line?, my pet wands each have one weight lighter lines in Cortland 333HT WF7F/S Sink Tip & Cortland 444 WF8S Rocket taper
kinda like having two double barrow shotguns. :cool:

My orvis rod and the rocket taper casts well with a slight open loop to forty feet and aprox a four foot loop to sixty feet. Still makes a nice tight
good looking side or off kilter cast to go the distance.. Very appropriate name for this line..

Not sure if any of my lines are still available as these are many years old, and still in fair shape.
I keep the lines polished up with a good conditioner and cleaner as well..

Would love to test out a new sharkskin line one day, some day...
with one of those new sage bass rods..
This post may end up costing me...

Have fun!

Steve

PS;
I would not recommend as my friend UB above, closing one's eyes while tossing these, or as UB dose state all of a sudden you will understand! lol

There seems to be a battle in the fly line business. Who can make the one with the least friction. Worth watching.

Steve, but since you asked. Yes, the SA Shark will add distance (increases line speed due to less friction and better aerodynamics). No doubt; it will. Some others may too,,, but it will. :)

JC, .. .I have a few SA Sharkskins since last season. They FLY! (bought 'em while the Cnd $ was high ;-)

I have an "impression" that they are less "heavy" than the regular SA line ... but I like that as it gets into it's own once I have +55 feet out the guides.

BTW,
I like a low-memory line. Coils in the line will kill casting distance.
Randy

Fish from a kayak and forget the standing on the bank strategy for fishing lakes. You can get close enough in a yak that you won't have to risk giving yourself a hernia with your quest for the 80 ft. cast.

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There really is a secret 'code' of proprietary' secrets to teaching casting. A very select group of individuals possess this knowledge. Closely guarded and never totally revealed, they are what makes them seem so superior to those of the cretinous commoners. Confusing buzz words and ambiguous phrases designed only to confuse and mystify.
To create and assure this discipline they flood the sport with useless pulp fiction. Proof is simple to establish, simply watch any two DVD and notice the exact opposite elements being taught. Or just use simple reasoning; who do you know that can cast exactly like 'Lefty' or 'Joan'? They have been trying for decades to produce 'clones'. How well have they done. That you can not cast exactly as either of them may be a blessing, run with that, then build on it.
I, on the other hand, have no such problems as no one has even thought to cast as I do or been led in that direction. So, now you should be content with possessing the real inside scoop on how to cast. :smile:

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Nobody could say it better than Jim

he is casting in the clouds imagine that next time your out practicing a good metaphor :)

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by Loteck Joe

I'm with you Betty,
Does Joan know what you said Jim? Maybe stop casting mamby pamby. Go for the gusto. And, stop the rod like you were doing 80mph into a brick wall. Doing what you taught me, I hit 70 feet with a double haul on a 7 1/2 foot 4 weight glass rod today. Practice & stop the rod, practice & stop the rod, practice & stop the rod. Those are the 3 most important factors of improvement.
Yes Jim, I think I am getting better at it.
Thank You,

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stop the rod like you were doing 80mph into a brick wall. YEP

Thanks Joe I have never had so much fun running into a brick wall :

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Good one JC, ... Deanna must have loved that one !!!

A hint ... when I want DISTANCE, ... I don't concentrate on my forward cast, ... I concentrate on the BACKCAST ... after all ... that's the part that will "pre-determine" how good the forward cast will/can be!

A coach or friend who can diagnose your cast is a must. LF and JC watched me cast for a few seconds then recommended a few ideas that helped me correct 30 years of mistakes !!

Christopher Chin

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I miss hearing from Christopher he had contributed allot of great information on this board. :)

Add distance for any rod weight by underlining it. The faster the rod, the better.

Some folks consider the TFO BVK too fast and overline it. I like my BVK 9' for 5 wt underlined with a 4 wt line.

John

At 6'4" with arms like a gorilla (almost 7' from fingertip to fingertip) and I can close my fist and touch an 8' ceiling, flatfooted... I have a serious advantage in distance casting... and can bury most lines without issue. Many years ago I met Joan and had the chance to cast next to her. Every time I thought I was about to impress her she cast farther without any indication of extra effort... timing is everythiing and this arhythmic white guy did not stand a chance.

Fishing the rivers and small ponds in central Kansas I probably use the roll cast 90% of the time. I got really frustrated catching limbs and weeds on the backcast so learning the roll cast became a matter of survival. I know my FF skills are very rusty right now but I fully intend to do something about it. I was a never great distance caster but I will work on that too.

What I do know is that fly fishing can out preform spinning rigs and bait casters in certain situations. Lakes in South Dakota are stocked with a fish the locals call "rock bass". When I travel on a bike I usually pack FF equipment and while camping next to Deerfield Lake near Hill City I decided to give it a go. I stopped counting after 15 and several fellows had to come over to see what in the heck was going on. I showed them some dry flies, streamers and the 4wt Yellowstone fly rod I bought on Ebay six months before the trip. I returned the fish back to their watery home but I think a few of those guys had something to think about that day.

This was a fun read from the start ... so many names of people gone from our lives, fishing the holy waters, or moved on to other things. I miss them!