Short Fly Rods

Hi to the group. I've been reading lots of posts on the board the last few months, and read the article about using Forecast E-glass Blanks for Fly Rods, which inspired me to build a couple rods so far. My first wasn't so hot, a 6' 1 pc SPG720 Blank, Full wells grip, black wraps, snake guides, and uplocking reelseat. Nice to cast but lots to be desired in looks, but a good rod to toss in the back of the truck and go off with. My next rod was a 3'4" 5wt, cigar grip, downlocking reelseat, blue wraps and rec single foot guides. Casts beautifully, handles everything from 4wt up to a 7wt with no problem.

Now for my latest dilemma...

My girlfriend's father was over for Thanksgiving breakfast and was admiring my short rod, and commented how he would like something similar to it. So afterwards I was thinking, Gee I can build him one like it. And of course the girlfriend suggested that I build him one for a Christmas Surprise. So I ordered the parts and supplies I would need, but I have a problem.

I built the 3'4" as my special one of a kind rod, and was going to make a couple 5 and 6 foot rods this winter, but now I'm sort of obliged to build a small stream rod for him, which isn't the problem, but the problem is I don't want to make the rod too short but not too long either. I was thinking of a 4' rod for him, would ride very well in his truck behind the seat or on the dashboard, which is where I keep mine most of the time when not fishing.

So what would you recommend for a lenght of rod? I'm using either a Forecast SPG601, SPG720, or SPG721 blank.

Hello Matt,
After reading your message and being a close neighbor to your Blackstone location (Chepachet ) , I wanted to know how you take a 6' blank and turn it into a 3'4" Just curious as to something to look into.Where did you take the cuts on the 6' blank i assume all from the butt and not from the tip.

Hi iflysw, I took the Batson blank and cut it down measuring from the tip, as the blank I used was a SPG720. Nice casting, like using the tip of a bamboo rod, which is what I was after. The inspiration for the 3'4" 5wt was from the movie "The Atlantic Salmon" by Lee Wulff where he used the tip section of a 3 piece 9 foot fly rod and the detatchable butt section to make a small rod to fight a nice salmon.

Well, started on the rod, only to find out that I need to order another reel seat, as the one I ordered looks totally out of place with the custom cork grip I'm making, Graphite and wood would work ok on a spinning rod, but not on a fly rod. So I ordered a new one from Mudhole, hopefully it will be in by next week.

Well, I've got the new reel seat, turned the cork, trimmed the blank, and installed the reel seat, grip, and tip so far. I'll try to post pics as soon as I figure out how to get them on the board.

Matt

Hello Matt, can't wait to see some pics of the beauty you're building !

Cheers,

MontanaMoose

How does a 3' 4" fly rod cast. I like 9 to 10' rods just to get over the top of vegitation while standing in the small streams that I fish. I have heard of people casting fly line without a rod at all, so of course it can be done.

Casting a short rod is just like casting the long rods, just need to get the whole arm into the swing to take up the difference in rod length, ie if a 9 foot rod tip moves 8 feet in the horizntal plane, then a 3' rod tip has to move the same distance, so you have to move the rod along with the tip to cover the same 8 feet. I chock most of it up to timing, as I can cast a pretty tight loop with the shorter rods. I jsut got my PM from JohnScott about posting pics, hope to have them up by tomorrow mid afternoon before work.

Thanks for the inquiries, I'm working on a deadline of December 22nd to have the rod in the dryer, and delivery on the 24th (when my girlfriend leaves for Maine to deliver the rod to her father on Christmas morning) Too bad I have to work Christmas day, otherwise I would be delivering it to him personally.

Thanks

Matt

OK let's see if this works......

Top is the Fly rod that's for the girlfriend's father

Bottom is the cork and blank for my rod next year, as I'm only going to fish freshwater with a 4' fly rod.

http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/r...t/100_1199.jpg

Hope to start wrapping tomorrow morning.

Looks good to me Matt. Interesting grip on the top rod. I see you 'roll' you own too. Nice work. Am I correct that the blue tape I think it is, might be an arbor for the cork since the i.d. of the cork is larger than the blank? If so, seems it would save having to even ream the grip much if at all, yes?

Cheers,

MontanaMoose

Here's a couple pics of the 3'4" 5wt and the 4' being built

http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/r...t/100_1200.jpg

And a closeup of the grips.

http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/r...t/100_1201.jpg

Thanks MontanaMoose,as for the arbor or tape, no it's just tape to protect the blank when I chuck it in the lathe. I've got an old engine lathe that I put felt pads on the insides of the jaws, then turn them. Problem is that the felt tends to slip on the blanks so I use the tape. Actually the cork grips have a .250 ID and the blank measures .310 at the top of the reelseat, so I still have to do some reaming. Not much though, as I prefer the tight fit so the cork will flex with the rod, giving it some feel. Actually I noticed a little blemish on the cork from the photo, about 1/2 way down the grip there's a line I can feel when handling it, so I'll hit it with the 600 grit to clean it up. I was going for the full wells grip, then decided on a shortened tennesee grip, this way you can slide down on the grip at the reel and the grip doesn't disappear under your hand. So far I've cast a 5wt line off the new rod with just the tip about 40 feet with no problems or concerns. Can't wait to see what it does with a full set of guides.

You're welcome and oh, ok on the tape. Nice having a lathe to play with I bet.

Yes, I'd not seen a grip like that besides double sliding ring type. I think I like it though. What O.D. is that grip please? I noticed it's 13 corks too, presumably .5" thick.

Cheers,

MontanaMoose

Matt -

Those short eglass rods look / sound like they would be a lot of fun to fish with. IF I weren't already commited to fishing only the bamboo rod that I am presently building during the year 2009, I'd give some serious thought to building a short eglass for myself. Maybe for 2010 ??

John

John...nooooooooo... don't do it...but what some have done is make a second handle that just the tip section plugs into. Have you heard of that?

Cheers,

MontanaMoose

That's my next step, to make a cork grip with the cork reelseat that will allow me to use the tip section of a bamboo rod, just like Lee Wulff did in "The Atlantic Salmon"

I'm working on that probably next year, as I have an Anglers Roost 9 foot 3 piece 2 tip 5/6 wt blank waiting in the cabinet, that will be my Salmon rod for 2010 / 2011

I'm using the batson SPG601 Blank cut 48" from the tip, and turned my own grips, bought the cork and the reel seat from Mudhole, the reel seat is American Tackle AL7 Titanium Finished Aluminum. The guides and tip are RECoil single foot, I like how they stand up to abuse better than some of my older rod guides, plus when they ice up, just give them a flick and the ice falls off in the winter.

Short rods are fun to fish, I've been playing with them since my camping trip to NH trip this past June. I like the 3'4" rod, fits on the dash of the truck nicely, all rigged and ready to go at a moments notice, and handles everything from a 4wt to 7wt lines with ease. Easy way to see if you like using a short rod is to take the tip from an 8 foot rod, run the line through it, hold the reel in the other hand or let more line out and let it set on the floor, and cast it. Just remember timing and arm movement are the key.

....the coming two handle rod will be a dandy Matt. Here's something for you to think over. using that same proposed rod and with only two handles, i.e. the butt section that will make the full rod and a separate handle that will make two more rods. Can you guess how that's done?

Cheers,

Montanamoose

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MontanaMoose

John...nooooooooo... don't do it...but what some have done is make a second handle that just the tip section plugs into. Have you heard of that?

Cheers,

MontanaMoose

---

No intention of shortening the bamboo rod. Maybe building a short eglass rod similar to Matt's.

Depending on how I like the bamboo, I would seriously consider what you are suggesting about a second reel seat / grip section for it. Whatever, that is quite a way down the stream.

John

That's easy, just watch the movie, they tell you in plain detail. The salmon rod has a removeable cork grip fighting butt that slides in half way into the reelseat of the bamboo rod. Removing the fighting butt, sliding 2 rings on and a removable end cap you have a 1 piece cork grip and reelseat, and the tip section seats into this new grip/reelseat assembly. Of course I was thinking of going with an engineered reelseat with longer fighting butt section / second grip, that threaded onto the rod like a detachable fighting butt and unthreads, flips over and the tip slides into the cork grip end, held in by friction or a second ferrule.

Matt -

Didn't know if I would be able to find it - but here is a post I did last spring on a thread about Cheap vs Expensive Fly Rods. Thought you and others who haven't seen it might enjoy it.

Quoting - I've been reading this thread from the beginning, and much enjoying it. I have resisted the temptation to join the conversation, up to this point.

But - today I tried out my first home made rod and outfit, so I qualify to talk about CHEAP, and CHEAPER, and CHEAPEST rods.

My entire fly fishing outfit today cost less than $1.50. I got skunked, but that is not relevant, because I'm satisfied that I can catch fish with this outfit in the right place at the right time.

The rod is a Scott 401.5-1O. ( Hope the other Scott has some sense of humor about this, if they run across it. ) The designation may not be familiar to you. It is a four foot for 1.5 weight one piece made of oak. Get beyond all that fancy language and what you have is a 48" X 1/4" oak dowel from the local hardware store. It cost $.84, including tax. The rod was finished with a tiptop fashioned from Maxima Chameleon leader material, and a decorative butt wrap of fly tying thread.

The line was a custom made Scott 1.5 LLF. Another unfamiliar designation ? It is a 1.5 wt level line floating. The line was furled using 45 plus feet of 20# dacron fly line backing on a seven foot jig to end up with a six strand level line about six feet long. Some mucilin turned a sure sinker into a floating line. Since I had the backing laying around, it didn't cost anything, unless you include labor, but as cheap as I am, I wouldn't pay myself - so it was free.

The leader was one of my standard thread furled leaders with silver chain tip ring. They cost about $.35 for materials, and I don't pay labor for that kind of thing.

Can't calculate the cost of four feet of 4x tippet, so let's just say that was $.10.

Fished a size 18 griffith gnat. That's probably another $.20 ??

That actually comes to $1.49 - got a penny to spare !!

Anyway, I could actually cast this outfit well enough to get the fly almost 20' from where I was standing. The rod was super fast action - some people would call it a stick, of all things. The line carried a tight loop, the furled leader turned over beautifully, the dry fly floated along nicely in a drag free drift. What more could you ask for, except for some nice brown or cutt to take the fly ??

I have to admit, the rod was a bit fast for my liking, and casting such a short rod with a 1/4" grip is a bit tiring. And it would probably max out under 30' even if I added a couple more six foot sections of Scott 1.5 LLF.

But it only cost a buck and a half, with change to spare - and I had a blast. Next time out, I'm gonna fish a creek where a 20' cast is almost always too long, and the fish just love to play with things floating along the surface. Can't hardly stand the wait. End of quote.


I actually did fish this outfit again on a small mountain creek. Got skunked again. And in the process I busted the blank. Built a couple better rods since.

John

John, I knew that...and yes, handle to plug the tip into makes any rod more useful...

Matt, oh ok...I din't know that rod had that capability...I like it...but am I missing something or does that only make two rods ? There's a way to make three with only two grips !

Cheers,

MontanaMoose

Looks like JohnScott needs to read John Betts book about turning a fly rod on a lathe after that short oak one.:mrgreen:

MontanaMoose, I don't know about the 3 rod setup, but I do know that I am planning on turning the bamboo blank into something of a masterpiece to fish for Salmon up north with.

I like the E-glass rod blanks I've been buying, they flex and react similar to a couple bamboo rods I have in my collection so far. Tough part is the only rods I am going to purchase from this point on are mostly bamboo, although if they are one of those "too good to be real" deals I might pick up another graphite or fiberglass rod. Then again now I have to get a bigger cabinet for all the rods I have so far, then again I probably could space them out along the walls and charge admission...Matt's Fly Rod Museum :mrgreen:

Then I'm really looking forward to the bamboo salmon rod Matt...

Cheers,

MontanaMoose

Well, another storm is tracking it's way across the country....Last night after work (technically this morning) I figured out the guide sizes and spacing, 5 guides, sized from tip are 4,4,4,5,6 no stripping guide as it really doesn't have any effect on the casting. The spacing from the tip are 4", 8.5", 14.125", 19.625", and 25.625". I looked at this a couple of times, thinking that the spacing was too short, but I found that the upper 30" loaded the rod and that would help transmit the power to the line.

Unfortunately I have been called in early for overtime for the last 3 days due to the weather and lack of help. hopefully I can get wrapping Saturday morning, if not then Sunday will become the "build" day.

Well I got the hook keeper and the size 6 and size 5 guides installed, went with a Black and Gold Mylar wrapped thread, and probably never use it again unless I'm redoing a rod with it originally. I have cut and thrown away over 25 feet of thread because either the Black wasn't spaced right, or the gold mylar broke, or the gold mylar got bunched up at one point. Lots of tension just to keep things in line and way too much headache right now.

I'll snap a pic of the wraps when I get them done prior to sealing them with the finish. Then on Tuesday the finished pics will be up.

Montana Moose, I forgot to tell you about the diameters on the grips, the ID is .25", the length is 6.125" top is 1.125" od, tapered to 1" then back out to 1.25" od on the tennesee style rod#3, the other one is 6.5" long, 1.25" OD, and .25" ID for rod#4. I haven't decided on a grip style for rod#4 yet.

Last thing I need to do is put it in a rod sock and tube after it dries to protect it on it's voyage to Maine, maybe tomorrow I can hit Bass Pro or Cabelas before the heavy snows hit the area.

Hopefully on the 24th I can get some time in on the lathe and smooth out the grips on my personal 4 footer, rod #4 if I get the time.

Matt -

This thread got me to thinking - which can be a dangerous thing ??!!

Getting a custom cork from BB member Smernsky. Going to use a piece of graphite rod blank to mount a reel seat and the grip, and to hold a ferrule matching the ferrule on the tip section of the bamboo rod I am building. That will give me a 4' 10" for ??wt bamboo rod. Don't have a clue what line it will take or how it will cast, but it could turn out to be a great little small stream rod.

Thanks for being a part of this idea.

Hope you have a joyful Christmas and New Year.

John

Used to live in your neck of the woods - Duxbury, from early '78 to mid '85. I imagine it has changed much over the past twenty plus years.

Thanks Matt, sounds like the grips are just right...
not too short, not to small diameter either.
Oh, before I forget, I have one more way to make 2 rods from
one handle...John's post reminded me of this....same idea taking
a section of rod and putting a grip together
with a ferrule to fit the tip...but...also on the
other end a ferrule for the mid and tip from
a three piece boo. Only thing sacrificed would
be a reel seat because the grip would be like
your straight cut one with the addition of two
sliding bands.

Cheers,

MontanaMoose

Here's the rod pre finish on the wraps.

http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/r...t/100_1219.jpg

http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/r...t/100_1223.jpg

Had a problem with the drying motor tonight, the chuck end came out of the motor and the rod sat, did some rebrushing and re coating, hopefully the finish will even out before morning.

Will keep everyone posted.

Matt

OK, so the wraps turned out ok, the varnish turned into large glass orbs around the wraps, larger than what I would like but smooth and not noticeable to the touch, so here's the final pictures of Rod #3 from my bench.

http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/r...t/100_1224.jpg

http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/r...t/100_1225.jpg

http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/r...t/100_1226.jpg

http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/r...t/100_1228.jpg

On the plus side, I tried a 5wt line on it, cast out to 35 feet without any effort at all.

It looks good to me Matt, now all it needs is a fish caugth with it. Mind if I ask total investment on that one?

Cheers,

MontanaMoose

Sure, I'm rounding off to make things easier, the blank was about $12, the reel seat was $17, the cork was $4.50, the guides,hook keeper and tip were $23, the Thread was $6. The finish and glues I had on hand, figure another $10 if bought new. All together total of $62.50 roughly not including shipping or labor.

Not bad, a rod like that would cost about $150+ in the shop if you bought it from one of the major manufacturers.

Heck, $62.50 is really reasonable for a custom built rod Matt. Shoot, even 30 years
ago I spent $34.xx on a fiberglass kit, not
including glue or finishes. Can't wait to see
the start of the cane rod.

Merry Christmas !

MontanaMoose

Rod went over well, Now I'm working on rod# 4, another 4 foot 6/7 wt for next year's fishing season.

As for the bamboo, that's going to be awhile, after I finish all my E-glass projects, graphite projects (got 2 sweet Cabelas 805 7 pc blanks yesteday and still sitting on a Cabelas 804 7 piece blank), and finish the 5 bamboo rod restorations and repairs I have in the rack right now.

Merry Christmas to all, I'll start posting to this one as soon as I get some progress on the new rod.

Well, I couldn't sleep the last 2 nights so I continued on with my rod. I'll have posts up later, unfortunately I ran out of Size 6 RECoil RSF Guides, so I need to order more. Also had a slip with the sandpaper, hit the edge of the reel seat in one corner, wearing off the Black Anodizing as it went through the masking tape I used to protect it when working on it. So I'll hit it with the Black marker, and now I just have to wait for my guides to come in this week.

I'll post photos tomorrow to display my progress.

Matt

Here's a couple pics of my new rod, it's fate after 12/31/2009 has yet to be determined, but I plan on fishing this one for the next year as part of a challenge. Now I'm waiting for more guides to finish it.

http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/r...t/100_1244.jpg

http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/r...t/100_1245.jpg

http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/r...t/100_1246.jpg

Nice work Matt, thanks for posting the pics !

Cheers,

MontanaMoose

OK, I finally got the 4 size 6 RECoil RSF guides in and decided to put them on before heading to work yesterday. So with that done, I got home this morning and put the finish on the wraps, loaded it in the drying rack, and now I'm waiting the customary 24 to 48 hours for it to dry. As soon as it's done I'll have some more pics and then hopefully this weekend I'll get a chance to get out to the Swift River for some fishing, as my challenge to myself this year is to fish freshwater with this one rod all year long.

Matt

http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/r...t/100_1251.jpg

http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/r...t/100_1249.jpg

Here's a photo of my rod on the drying setup. Got to love Painter's Tape.

http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/r...t/100_1252.jpg

And the ever crowded rod cabinet. I'm going to have to build another one of these for the custom made rods pretty soon. :D