bait and switch, online camera purchasing

I am in need of a new camera at work. I really like the old one, but it has a red pixel in the final products and it is getting annoying. So, I googled and found a couple outfits that sell the new (and improved) one online at good prices.

I started with 86th Street Photo in NYC. Cheapest place, camera in stock according to the website. Had the lady with the purchasing card place the order, waited. No camera. So I had her call back and check. Backordered 5 weeks. And then they hung up on her. Since I don't want to wait 5 weeks and they lied about it being in stock, I had her cancel the order. While attempting to do so, they kept hanging up on her. She finally got it cancelled.

So, second choice, Broadway Photo and Video, again in NYC. Now, I have purchased things there before, including the camera I am currently using, with no problems. In stock, reasonable price, according to the website. So I wrote up the order and gave it to the lady with the card.

So sorry, not in stock, have to backorder. But...they have the US-made version of the same camera IN stock, and only $100 more!! Now, she knows I don't want to wait, so she went ahead and ordered it, since I was in the field.

So, I get back, she tells me what happened, and I get ticked. I have never seen a more classic case of bait-and-switch. So, she tries to call them back, 4 pm eastern (customer service closes at 5, supposedly). No answer, and you cannot leave a message. So I try. No answer. I try to get through to ANY person. No answer.

So, based on the last couple days, I would recommend to all of you that, past performance aside, you NOT purchase from either of these outfits. As soon as I get a real person tomorrow, I cancel the second order, and spend your tax dollars on a camera at some more expensive outlet. Nearest camera shop is 60 miles away.

Also, the FTC is going to get a complaint about the bait and switch fraud. Probably nothing illegal about the first place, they didn't sell us anything else instead. But the second...

Argh.

B&H Photo, Beach Camera. You can't go wrong with these guys. They're out of New York. Good prices- NO bait and switch. No gray market stuff either.
Full factory warranties.
They're easy to deal with.

edit- If you're looking for a cheaper camera, like a Nikkon, or Canon etc. and there's a price that's too good to be true, it's probably a gray market camera/lens with no U.S. warranty. Maybe there's a lot of guys like you out there looking for the cheapest outfit and just bought them all up. Maybe they were out of stock.
And-You get what you pay for.

B&H is where a lot of the pros go. They do sell gray market items, but you select that option. I'll try and find the website that has online dealer ratings and post it here.

As you read, I just bought my Pentax W30 thru Amazon.

DG -

I probably would have spelled argh - AAARRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

Or something like that.

I thought about those online folks, and I have heard some good things about some of them, when I bought my first digital camera recently. But I got this thing about online shopping, to start with, and a thing about New York, on top of that.

So for a few bucks more I could go to a local store, only ten miles from home, and buy from a place which will pay wages to the local employee who sold it to me. At least some of the money stays in the neighborhood and trickles down to ... a hamburger place ?? that trickles down to a ... gas station ?? that ......

Anyway, I guess I would rather have you spend some of my tax dollars at a store in western Colorado than at a NY online outlet.

John

Now the gas is a different matter.... AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!

Try googling 86th Street Photo. They are a bait and switch operation. If you don't buy a lot of high priced addons they will be out of stock on the camera you want or will just loose your order. Without the high priced options, you will never get anything. Broadway Photo is either a related company or just runs the same scam.

Good suggestions here on reputable on line sources of photo gear. In addition to those mentioned, I have used Adorama, which is another reputable NY based operation.

A good site to use to evaluate online stores is Reseller Ratings. It is a review site and people post their experiences there.

John, I had the argh boiled down by the time I wrote the above. Buying locally is always good, but the reality of "locally" buying a camera in Grand Junction or Montrose, the nearest places that could be called a city, is that it takes 90 minutes to get there, 90 minutes to get back, and about $40 worth of gas. So in terms of absolute cost to the govt, add roughly $150 to $180 to the purchase price. Plus *I* can't buy anything, only the people with the purchase cards can. So I either have to get the purchasing folks to give the credit card # over the phone or they have to come with me. Which is why mail order is the preferred option for most things that aren't available down the street or at places we have a BPO.

We won't get into how much time I have now spent on ordering and un-ordering this stuff.

Live and learn. If it wasn't for that #$#^*^ red pixel I would just forget about a new camera for another year.

For the record, the FTC complaint form is not the most user-friendly thing in the world, either.

Cameta Camera is a terrific company to deal with! you will get a real, live person, friendly service and speedy delivery. Yes they will probably suggest other items to go with the camera but they do not get offended when you tell them no thanks. I bought my Pentax K-110D Digital SLR off of them and will be buying more from them in the near future.

Go to the following link then click on their link to their eBay store in the upper right corner. Check out is through Cameta Camera. They will call you and walk you through the check out over the phone.

http://secure.cameta.com/index.cfm

Cameta Camera eBay store:

http://stores.ebay.com/Cameta-Camera

Good Luck!

i have always used B & H . never a problem. ever!

DG,
What make and model do you have?

Quote:

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Cameta Camera is a terrific company to deal with! you will get a real, live person, friendly service and speedy delivery. Yes they will probably suggest other items to go with the camera but they do not get offended when you tell them no thanks. I bought my Pentax K-110D Digital SLR off of them and will be buying more from them in the near future.

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I was about to suggest them - first class experience from me on three occasions now.

:lol:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RS1

B&H Photo, Beach Camera. You can't go wrong with these guys. They're out of New York. Good prices- NO bait and switch. No gray market stuff either.
Full factory warranties.
They're easy to deal with.

edit- If you're looking for a cheaper camera, like a Nikkon, or Canon etc. and there's a price that's too good to be true, it's probably a gray market camera/lens with no U.S. warranty. Maybe there's a lot of guys like you out there looking for the cheapest outfit and just bought them all up. Maybe they were out of stock.
And-You get what you pay for.

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B&H is great, wouldn't do business with Beach again if they were the only place still in business. I buy a new Canon camera from them. Within a month it goes belly up. Obviously something electronic. I send it back with a return authorization number. They sign for it's return. When I call about when I am going to get my replacement camera, Beach says that they never received the return. I had to get UPS involved. Even when presented with a signature of the guy who recieved it, they didn't want to comply. Luckily I bought it with a credit card and had some protection through them. After the credit card company said that they would not pay for the first camera, Beach finally sent me my replacement camera.

I like Abe's of Maine by the way. But Never Again on Beach Camera.

Rick

I always deal with either B&H or Adorama in New York. Both of the companies you listed are well known in photographic circles for their bait and switch sales tactics. Problem is they have been doing it for years, just never when the NY attorney general is looking.

When in doubt check with the Better Business Bureau (the have an online component) or with the Photo.net Community Reviews (http://photo.net/neighbor/subcategory-index?id=2).

As you found, in general if a deal sounds too good to be true, it probably isn't. And especially with New York camera shops, if the camera you want is substantially less than anbody else is selling it for, run in the other direction.

Brian

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DG

For the record, the FTC complaint form is not the most user-friendly thing in the world, either.

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Might I suggest filing a complaint with the NYC Better Business Bureau as well? They don't have any kind of sway or jurisdiction to enforce anything but their online forms are very easy to use and at the least you could help get the company a negative rating by the BBB. I'd also suggest contacting the NY State Attorney General's Office and filing a compaint with them. All of the Attorneys General have consumer protection divisions and they have teams of people that process these types of complaints and although they cannot represent you as an attorney, they do have the authority to conduct the necessary investigations to help these organizations straighten up.

As a federal employee (I think you are) this was written on a government credit card, as such they were trying to rip off the US government. There is probably a federal court or service that could get involved. sometimes they are a little more effecient that the overworked state offices. I was going to suggest postal inspectors but they didn't mail it out, on the other hand I'm sure they mail many packages every day so it might be worth a shot for postal fraud.

Eric

With valid credit card clutched firmly in hand I first tried locally. Walmart, Sportsman's Warehouse. local camera shop, Kitz Camera in a mall here, Fred Meyers; ALL said they would be glad to order one for me (W30). I thanked them and explained that if I wanted to order one,,, I could do that myself. So I did. Amazon. Saved about a hundred bucks overall.

Purchasing lady took an hour to get customer service on the phone this morning. They wouldn't confirm that they were canceling the order. So she handed me the phone. I asked twice to cancel the order. No luck. Then twice to speak to his supervisor. He got more belligerent with each request. After he told me there were 34 people waiting to speak to his supervisor, I again requested (OK, demanded) the immediate cancellation of the order. He said OK, it's cancelled, and hung up.

FTC compaint form was filled out about 5 minutes later.

20 minutes after that, B&H was polite, very helpful, and cheaper than their website showed (GSA contract). Kudos to them. Shipped by tomorrow, no shipping charge.

Will let you know how the new camera works out.

Dennis

My appologies to the many good people of NY, but there are enough troubles like this from that area, that I usually won't do business on Ebay with anyone from there. There are bad apples all over, but for some reason more of them are in that area. Like I said, there are many good people there too, but I just don't like my chances for doing business there.

Rick

Regarding Broadway Photo, I've personally had a very favorable experience with them. I bought my first Pantax WPi through them at a very good price, no sales tax and 3 day delivery. BUT I've heard a whole bunch of cautionary comments about them and would probably NOT use them again. I suppose they DO keep a few satisfied customers as references and bait. It's actually tough to post a comment as I did above when in fact I WASN'T wronged in any way by them, BUT.......................

Mark

I'm with JC about purchasing from Amazon. You can get stuff pretty cheap there. Also look into www.newegg.com. I've purchased a lot of computer parts from Newegg and have not been disappointed. I've compared prices from other places to Newegg's prices and have found that they are considerably cheaper.

Nikon D60 with 18-55mm VR Lens at B&H-
649.95
3-5 Business Days Delivery
$13.05

Same kit at Newegg-
659.99
3 business day shipping-free

Same kit at Amazon-
646.31
Qualifies for free shipping, but may take an additional 3-5 business days.

Keep in mind if they have an establishment or warehouse in your state, you will pay sales tax. On Amazon, you can also buy cheaper from people that sell on their site.

This might sound a little weird, but after my terrible experience with Beach camera, I bought my wife a Canon XTi from Dell. They actually had a sale going and the price was better than the NY outfits. Something to consider if you are in the market. Great price, great serivce from a stand up company. Selection is somewhat limited, but it worked out for me.

Rick

Give them "WHAT FOR" Dennis. You can spend my tax dollars any way you want.