How hard/easy is the clouser minnow to tie?

Cause I found it hard!!!! No, impossible. My attempt, 5th or 6th, still turned out terrible:)

I'm not looking for total perfection. But something that looks half decent at least haha. I used deer tail, since I have no bucktail, and chain bead eyes, and I have no clear mono thread. But, I was looking for the nice, neat cone head. And the overall look with the top and bottom, which I didn't get. Not sure if it's my wraps, my proportions of hair. I dunno. I really wanna learn this pattern though:)

The good thing is, I didn't crowd the eye too much this tie like I usually do:)

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...serattempt.jpg

Criticism, please!

Thanks,
Shane

Haha, it's hideous!

Wheres the Krystal Flash?,Every CM's not complete unless it's got the KF!!! and these are like eating a Reese's....Theres just no wrong way to tye em...septin NOT having the flash!

Give these videos a gander. http://www.flyfisherman.com/ftb/bobclouser/ Straight from the horse's mouth. IMO it is not a hard fly to tie, and rejects(I have had alot of them) will still catch fish. That being said, there are some specific things that Bob shows in these videos that really will make a difference. Oh, by the way, you gotta have some flash. Even a little Christmas tinsel will do the job.

Otto,

This is in regards to all your recent post's...not just this one...

You seem to be placing a lot on what you perceive in your own abilities in tying...lol..I just confused me self...lol

Anywho, If you are looking to really shorten your learning curve in tying...I can only suggest what I found to be the single greatest help for myself...and the best investment I've made toward tying my own flies...And that was purchasing A.K.Best's video "Tying Dry Flies" This video covers dries in steps and really hones in on proportions....And gives techniques that can be used in ALL aspects of tying .. Not just Dry flies....The way he shows to mount material on the hook works universally....I think you'll really enjoy this video.

An experienced fly tier once told me that he ties all the same flies in any given session and throws away the first six.

I don't quite do that. But it takes a few flies to get the proportions down for me. Offhand, I think that clouser isn't that bad. But it will look more like the traditional clouser if you use bucktail, and (of course) flash.

The clouser is such a great creation. Very unlike anything that went before (as far as I know), simple to tie and effective. Hard to cast, though.

No better way to learn the Clouser Minnnow than from Mr. Clouser himself.

Check out these two videos. They helped me immensely when I was learning.

Part 1
Part 2

My first few Clousers were dreadful. But these videos helped me improve quickly.

Oops. I just realized that those may be the same videos that Sagittarius linked too.

Those videos are what I used to learn to tie a Clouser. I setup my vice on my PC desk and started the vids. I paused them when I needed to and eventually wound up with some nice flies. In fact, I need to sit down and tie some more up because we are heading down to the coast this weekend! Clousers are my "go to" fly in both fresh and saltwater!

I just watched the videos and your fly looks like what Bob Clouser tied, less the Krystal flash. Any time you blow up a picture of a fly by a factor of 3 or so you will see any minute defect.

Being a newbe the one thing I do is to write down all the things I don't like about how I tied a fly then tie another trying to improve. I certainly don't end up with a dozen identical flies but the last one is much better than the first.

Dan

All due respect to Mr. Clouser, but I always tie mine with both the tail and the wing colors tied on top, in front of the eye.
I did it the official way for years, but I found that the tail section would get destroyed dragging on the bottom.
The fish don't seem to mind the difference

You have no crystal flash for the lateral line

Having watched Bob tie his Clouser I noticed he would use white thread not mono, tie the barbell eye 1/3 back from the hook eye and the hair length twice the length of the hook. He tied some smaller nice versions with squirrel tail. Use a straight eye hook. You said you didnt have buck tail so you used deer tail--- they are the same. Dont tie the white so far back, stay closer to the bead chain BILL

I tried tying from a pattern I read with some photos. I wasn't able to tie a clouser from that, then another youtube video, same thing. Then I found bobs video, and tied a decent clouser. I prob need to use a bit more hair maybe. I find the biggest problem I had with this tie was the eye of the hook, I had a problem with crouding again, but after 5-6 tries I was able to take care of it. But my "cone" is still not looking great either.

I have some squirrel tail and deer tail left, so I'll tie up some more in the next few days while I wait for monday to come. Maybe it'll improve. I did learn quite a bit from watching Bobs video. That'll help with other ties as well.

Thanks for the tips everyone, and the compliments.
Shane

you mentioned you didnt have any bucktail so you just used deer tail. i thought they were the same thing. whats the difference between the two? if its between male and female deer ive used them both from deer family or friends shot, and ive never noticed any difference...

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you mentioned you didnt have any bucktail so you just used deer tail. i thought they were the same thing. whats the difference between the two? if its between male and female deer ive used them both from deer family or friends shot, and ive never noticed any difference

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There is none that I have ever seen. You will notice that Bob Clouser calls it "deer tail" more often than not in his books and videos. Hareline buys thousands of tails from meat processors etc, and all they do is sort them by size. Most retailers don't even sell tails broken down by size, though some do. Clouser himself sells two varieties "short" with hair 3 inches or less and "long" with hair 3 inches or longer. I have about a dozen different bucktails, and depending who I got them from, they are roughly 2 different general sizes. One I would call medium, that are about 8 inches long by 4 inches wide, and most of the hair length is less than 3 inches, and ones I call large that are at least 10 inches long by 5 inches wide, and have alot of fibers longer than 3 inches. I use them interchangeably.

Two things I notice are the placement of the eyes and the flaring out of the bucktail. Try placing the eyes a bit further back on the hook. This leaves a little more room for the head area. Watch the video of Bob Clouser for the exact dimension. You may be applying too much thread tension on the bottom(top) bucktail and that's making it flare out from the hook. Start with softer wraps up near the eyes and then much tighter wraps as you approach the eye. Bucktail tends to want to flare if you put too much thread tension on it. I've got some clousers that look just like yours from my early days of tying!

Hope this helps and keep on tying!

TxEngr

I have had a lot of success with the Clouser Minnow having made them for Saltwater, I am lucky I have step by step instruction for the pattern -- but reducing the size for trout is a big shock as the hooks went from 6/0 down to size 8 long shank. But I now have it coming right. it takes time but the effort is really worth while..

So keep trying you will be really rewarded when it suddenly comes right for you...

Jeanne

Otto:

One of my undisclosed passions is cooking. When I'm developing a recipe I often times experiment with either portions of the recipe or the techniques before committing to a full meal. It allows me to fine tune things without screwing up a dinner because I discovered I didn't know how NOT to break a Bearnaise Sauce before I got to the point when I needed it for the dish I was preparing.

This convoluted analogy also applies to my fly tying. When I'm trying a new pattern which may involve a new technique or material; I will practice with the material or the new techniques WITHOUT constructing a whole fly. For example when I first started tying quill bodied flies before I decided to begin a fly in the normal fashion; I practiced JUST the quill preparation and wrapping on a bare hook. After I was content and satisfied with my results I built my first Quill Gordon's. Other practice sessions I can recall involved floss tags and bodies, tinsel bodies and tinsel tie-in, bead head tie-ins and tie-offs, quill wings and married wings and a bunch of other stuff I can't recall at the moment.

This pre-tying practice not only helped me enormously; it also all but eliminates the first few lousy looking flies I end up when I first begin a batch. Any step in the tying process you are unsure of can be practiced this way without starting at the "beginning" and ending with a completed fly that you are unhappy with. For example you can practice split tails, floss application, wrapping hackle, foam techniques, new brands of thread, etc; even Clouser heads!

Try it sometime. I'll bet you end up with better looking flies in less time with less rejects.

;)

Shane,

Take this for what it is worth; espescially from a newcomer to tying. What you have shown us in this post and others is not terrible. It just shows some inexperience. As I mentioned in another post...Go to the FAOL home page, click on the fly tying and take the tying courses from the begining. That was the advice I got from quite a number of FAOLers. I was trying to tie flies before I had mastered the skills or materials. I think you're caught in the same trap I was. I saw a fly and wanted to tie it irregardless of my talent. We need to walk before we can run.

Take a fresh start and take the classes. The more you tie the better you will become.

If you are having problems with placement of the barbell eyes try using a kink shank hook (these have a kink in the shank and are used for popper bodies and the kink keeps the body from turning on the shank) and place the barbell in the kink. This will give you plenty of space for the head, puts the weight more centered on the shank and works very well.

When you use bucktail for wings on streamers us the stuff nearer to the tip of the tail. It is not as large in diameter as the stuff at the base of the tail and will not flair as much. This is the problem I see with the dark hair. When you cut a clump of hair and stack it try to tie it in at a point as close to the fine tips as possible and still get the length you want. The base of the hair will flair more easily because it is hollow and larger. That's what I have discovered recently anyways.

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Originally Posted by OttoDita

I prob need to use a bit more hair maybe.

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No. NO. NO!

The fly in your picture has at least twice as much hair as you need, maybe even three times. Clousers should be tied sparse. I've heard stories that Bob Clouser ties his own flies much, much sparser than those he sells, because nobody would buy flies tied as sparse as they really should be tied.

The Clouser Minnow was one of the first flies I learned to tie. I've admittedly had mediocre luck with the fly, probably more due to my poor presention more than the look of the fly. I've tied a bunch and I just wanted to echo CM_Stewarts advise. Tie sparse. I've read that the reason is that in the water a bait fish has a very translucent almost see through profile. The other thing Clouser said that I read was that the more chewed up the fly got from catching fish, the more productive that fly was. Why? It lost hair and became thinner. Tie sparse.
Tom.

I'm another of those that learned to tie the Clouser Minnow as one of my first flies. Many of the first ones I tied had the same problem you mentioned of crowding the eye of the hook with eyes and the bucktail. I found a good visual explanation of how to tie it at Charlie's Fly Box (Google it and then click the "Flybox" link).

I've also leared a lot about proportions from Al Campbell's series of lessons so deffinately check them out right here on FAOL http://flyanglersonline.com/flytying/beginners/ I think everyone ties flies that they are not proud of at one time or another. You can always pull out the ole razor blade and cut them from the hook (done that more than once) or just fish them. Flies that we consider ugly will still catch fish.

Brian

and as long as we are recognizing Al Campbell's contribution, I suggest, Shane, that you look to the step-by-step patterns on this FAOL website. Here is the Clouser link.
http://www.flyanglersonline.com/flyt...ate/part43.php

Thanks a lot Greg, tomorrow when I pickup my materials I'll start on the link! :)

Shane

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Originally Posted by OttoDita

Haha, it's hideous!

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"I'm hideous"

-Kramer

Too many thread wraps holding the bead chain, causing the brown hair to "stand-up".
Almost need to use bucktail as any other hair from a deer is hollow and will flair as you
tighten thread wraps.

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Originally Posted by stripper2

Too many thread wraps holding the bead chain, causing the brown hair to "stand-up".
Almost need to use bucktail as any other hair from a deer is hollow and will flair as you
tighten thread wraps.

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I got some bucktail, but it's still flairing. Even wrapping lightly it's flairing. Course I'm tying on 14's, I dunno if that makes a difference. I'll use less wraps on the eyes tonight and see how it turns out.

Thanks a lot!
Shane

I wouldn't tie a deep clouser on less than a #8. 60% of my clousers are tied on #4 mustad 3366's. 20% on #6's and #8's and 20% on #2's and #1's. Too small doesn't let the bucktail move properly in the water and a good rule of thumb when tying in barbell eye's is to not go wider than the eye than the hook gap as this can cause hook-up issues. For me that means 6 & 8 are size x small and less, 4 is size small and less, with 1 & 2 is size medium and less.

For tying the minnow, take how much hair you think you need, then remove half and tie with that. It won't seem right at first but they are easier to tie with less hair and fish better.