multi piece rods

Ok, so i have noticed that fly rods come in as many as 7 pieces. Why? I know very little about fly rods, but i do know that with spinning/baitcasting rods that not having a solid 1 piece blank creates stress points, weak spots, reduces casting accuracy, as well as decreasing sensitivity. sensitivity shouldn't be an issue with a fly but i would imagine that throwing 50 feet of fly line would be a pretty heavy strain for the rod and i would think that accuracy would be very important to anyone casting to rising trout. I can understan a 2 piece because that gives you 2 four foot six pieces instead of a 9 foot that most of us would have to poke out the back window to drive to the fishing hole. however, i don't understand why you would want a 4 piece 8 foot 3 wt. can some one plz explain?

"To fit in the overhead storage or under your seat" I guess. A 4-peice would fit in most travel bags. I guess a 7-piece would give you more packing room for gear.

I did a trip last year where we rode dirt bikes in Colorado and fished. It was awesome! A four-piece did well and was completley adequate but a 5-7 sure would have packed up a little better. There is no way we could do it with our 2-piece rods. I could see somone on on a mountain bike wanting one. Although breaking the rod down sure would be a PIA!

I have wondered how well a 7 piece would fish as well. It sure would fit on my motorcycle better. Any with reviews or opinions on some pack rods?
Thanks.... Erich

over the years this has been discussed a few times. the consensus is that multi-piece fly rods cast just fine. I have three, four and five piece rods. They are wonderful to fish with. Modern ferrule design and construction is such that all those joints don't matter a bit. The rods use less space and whether it is for traveling or storage they make good sense.

If,,, the multi-piece rod is properly designed, the number of sections will not matter or be noticeable. They will cast well, fish well, play/fight/land well and pack better than others. I have a 3wt that I landed a 24" rainbow with. All sections of the rod are 6 inches long.

Over the years, the airlines have mastered the art of bending supposed "safe" travel cases for rods. A 4 piece will fit nicely inside a big suitcase and will be much safer.

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Originally Posted by J Castwell

I have a 3wt that I landed a 24" rainbow with. All sections of the rod are 6 inches long.

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how long is that rod?

Hugefish,

You wrote:

"I know very little about fly rods, but I do know that with spinning/baitcasting rods that not having a solid 1 piece blank creates stress points, weak spots, reduces casting accuracy, as well as decreasing sensitivity".

That was true thirty or forty years ago. The technology of building modern graphite rods, specifically the designs of the integral ferrules, renders all of what you wrote as outdated.

Todays rods don't have weak spots at the ferrules, 'stress points', nor are they less sensitive or less accurate. That applies to all types of rods, not just fly rods.

You can now buy multi piece bass and inshore saltwater rods 'off the rack' in many shops. Custom builders are building multi piece rods for game like Marlin and Tuna.

The angler who uses these rods gives up nothing to a one piece rod.

The 'benefits' of multi piece rods are primarily rod portability and rod safety. The shorter pieces are easier to treansport and harder to break while they are being transported.

If you don't 'travel' to fish, it probably doesn't matter much.

Good Luck!

Buddy

It is scientifically impossible to build a ferruled rod to the exact same characteristics as a continuous rod section. It will be heavier, stiffer, and possibly weaker because of stress concentrations. It's like it is not possible to have a knotted joint in the line behave as though there were no joint.

So, the only reason you would want joints in your rod is for portability. And the less joints, the better. Only you can decide that degree of portability you want. All the way from getting it into your car crosswise to sticking it in a suitcase.

There is work afoot by Magnus Argus and Grunde Lovell to characterize rods by their Polar Moment of Inertia (MOI) as well as their static strength (exhibited by ERN in the CCS method). I would guess that the more sections you have - the higher the MOI (bad). So all that money you spent on that ultra high modulus graphite is going to be somewhat wasted. More will come out on this later.

So what does all this mean? It means multi-piece rods are a compromise for portability and you should not compromise beyond what you need.

All that being said, the joints in rods today are hardly noticable. So the compromise is probably minor. The only way you can be sure just what that compromise actually is, would be to cast identical rods (identical except for the #of ferrules that is) side by side. I have never done that and I don't know anyone who has (key word - identical).

And as JC said, there are many multipiece rods available and because of the skill of the designers, they are okay.

But an acceptable compromise, none-the-less. And science will say that there is a difference.

As for me, I have never found it.

Godspeed,

Bob

"Interesting"!?! First, my rods are effected by "ERN" and "CCS" methods, so instead of "bad karma", I've NOW got worry about "having a limp "MOI", which sounds sort of scary!?! I just hope I don't lose my "MOJO" and I guess,I'll be okay!?
And, Hugefish, my Sage, 7pc. Travel Rod casts, mends, handles large fish, (on VERY RARE occasions!), and everything, else it's supposed to do.. just as well as any of my 2-piece rods. It's 5 years old and still going strong. Even has all its original MOJO still intact!

I have a seven piece Cabela's stowaway 9'6" 7 wt. that I use for steelhead and carp, and it is OK but a little on the heavy and slow side of things. I think it is slow feeling because of the extra weight from the ferrules makes them feel a little tip heavy. I have three friends that own the Cabela's seven piece 5 wts. which they take to Utah every year to fish the Green River. They have no complaints and judging from their pictures the fish don't mind either. They fish both the big rivers and the small trickles. These can stow in a briefcase and are real handy when traveling and carried right with your carryon luggage.

It is then, as it should be. Opinion trumps science anyday. And again, the only way you would ever be able to tell the difference is side by side. And I have never done that. So trust your opinions. At the end of the day, that's all we have.

Godspeed,

Bob

IMO the only thing that matters is how the rod feels in YOUR hands. Anything else, science or belief or karma or the rod fairy, is irrelevent.

I fish a Cabelas 5pc 3wt stowaway all the time (I think I am on my third or fourth one of these), and I enjoy it immensely. Casts just fine, fights fish just fine, never felt it was inferior due to multiple sections. And it is a WHOLE lot easier to carry around than a 2 pc rod would be. Can strap it on my backpack, behind the saddle of a horse, across the handlebars of a bike... I CAN unscrew it while casting, though. But then again, I can do that with a 2pc rod as well.

My son has a 7 piece Cabelas rod (7'6" 4wt). I was skeptical at first, but the thing really casts well and is a really nice rod. When the cost is factored in, it's a very nice rod.

Jeff

I have three, 2 pc. 5 wt. rods of various manufacture. Two are nine footers, and one is a 9.5 foot. I bought a Cortland 8.5 foot,5wt. 7 Pc. pack rod a few years ago, and for me, it gives up nothing in castability or accuracy. In fact I like to fish it better on streams than I do the others. It's a bit more bother to put together and take apart, but you can toss it in a daypack or a fishing vest to hike into your honey hole. It's a great addition to the arsenal, and adds the option of being a very handy rod to take trippin'.

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Originally Posted by jeffnles1

My son has a 7 piece Cabelas rod (7'6" 4wt). I was skeptical at first, but the thing really casts well and is a really nice rod. When the cost is factored in, it's a very nice rod.

Jeff

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That's good to hear, Tying God, but with Daniel, the only thing one must consider of late is............... "2-piece or 7-piece, IS the rod he owns "A GOOD CHICK MAGNET OR NOT"??
Obviously, on his fishing excursions of late, that seems to be the only "rod criteria" that seems truly important for him to consider!??!
(Forget, it Jeff, don't even think about it. For you and I, THAT kind of "rod criteria" is a thing of the past and best left to the younger set!)

I have a four piece pack rod...and I am LOVING it...I was worried about it affecting my cast, accuracy, etc...it hasn't...it's an Okuma four piece, guide select...IM8 Graphite...affordable...fabulously smooth action...and I can break it down to pack into just about anywhere!! It is wonderful to hike in without catching every tree branch or shrub on the way...I have completely fallen in love with it and had no reason to return to my old two piece rod...as good as she has been to me...

I own at least (6) 4 to 7 piece rods, and have a 9'-0" 6wt Stowaway 7 blank to build. The only reason I purchased or built these rods was for portability. I can go steelheading in Oregon or chasing gills in Georgia or on a canoe trip anywhere in Ohio or PA, and be able to safely bring along my fly rods either in a dry bag, luggage or in the overhead compartment of any airplane. I really don't critique the rods based on the number of sections, but have to say that all of them deliver good service for the limited amount of time they are used. Have to admit I mostly fish with 2, 3 or 4 piece rods when on my home waters.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...ds/Rod6-03.jpg

FWIW, this Forecast IM6 rod weighs in at 3.15 oz. Not bad at all for a 9'-0" 4wt, and kind of debunks the myth that multi's are heavy.

Joe

Just for fun:


Orvis ZG 4 wt. 2 piece - 2 3/4 oz. : 4 piece - 3 oz.
Orvis T3 4 wt. 2 piece 3 oz. : 4 piece 3 1/4 oz
Sage Z axis 4wt 2-piece - 3.06 oz.: 4 piece 3.06 oz.
Sage FLi 4 wt. 2 piece 3 7/16 oz. : 4 piece 3 1/2 oz.

So around .05 oz per added ferrule (average) with the outermost at about 7 1/2 foot out on the fly rod. In line weight equivalence, it would be only 6 1/2 feet of fly line or 1 line weight.

Could you feel that? Some of you could. That?s why people buy Z axis and Helios rods. Others couldn't. Or wouldn't care. I would have to cast them side by side and maybe even then I am not sure I would be able to feel it.

Add that to the fact that many quality (high priced)) rod makers are starting to make only 4 piece rods.

This has been fun for me but then, I am weird. Sorry to bore you all. Maybe some will be interested in the science of why some rods feel better than others. Not that it will change anything.

Godspeed,

Bob

I thought I heard some were that many of the rod manufacturers are go to multi piece rods because they can make the smaller sections with more precision than larger sections. Personally as long as the rod is balanced well and not top heavy the overall weight doesn't bother me.

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Originally Posted by hugefish_80

I know very little about fly rods, but i do know that with spinning/baitcasting rods that not having a solid 1 piece blank creates stress points, weak spots, reduces casting accuracy, as well as decreasing sensitivity.

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Huge:

The others adequately argued the merits on the fly rod side but I have always questioned the prevailing wisdom when it comes to conventional rods. I fish a LOT with baitcasting tackle and a moderate amount with spinning tackle. ALL of my baitcasting and spinning rods are two piece for a simple reason: I don't have the room in my fishing-mobile to easily store one piece 6'-10' rods.

I have caught and landed PLENTY of bass between 4-11 lbs on these rods with zero issues, as well as many other larger freshwater fish and some real bruisers in the salt. I also only have to think about the MANY tarpon, permit, and billfish that have been successfully landed on fly tackle; not to mention scores of stripers and blues caught on 2 piece surf rods to make me scratch my head and wonder why in the world a bass or other species fisherman would think for a minute that a multi sectioned spinning or baitcasting rod wouldn't be strong?

As far as sensitivity goes; rod flex profile, rod material and construction and fishing line type have more to do with sensitivity than the number of sections. A tomato stake with braid can be more sensitive than a fishin' pole with mono. While for me; casting accuracy has always been more about the angler than the tackle.

I often times think that the lack of multi-piece tackle in the conventional arena is more about tradition, the lower price of a rod with no "joints" and a lack of storage problems rather than true advantages in performance. My buddies with bass boats really don't have a need for multi-piece rods because they just keep their tackle rigged up in the boat's rod locker or lying on deck while they're fishing. The saltwater gang has similar options so why bother with multi piece if you don't have to?

A half-cocked theory of mine regarding the "tradition" of multi-piece fly rods is that many fly-fishermen in beginning were well-heeled and subsequently had the ability to travel to fish. Since the stagecoach or train was the method before the automobile; "pack-ability" was a benefit. As a result; the tradition continues today.

Some people have a; "more joints, more problems" mentality which I guess can be valid but that's similar to a; "more options, more problems" mentality with an automobile; if you never had a problem with your heated seats, you aren't afraid to order them.

For me it's all about convenience. I'll never argue that a multi piece rod "feels" exactly the same as an identical one piece rod. But I will argue that the differences in performance are negligible or possibly indistinguishable if done correctly.

Other issues aside, you should never let strength, sensitivity or accuracy concerns steer you away from a multi-piece rod. It should be all about what works best for you and your budget.

JMHO

As is the usual this thread has gone beyond the original QUESTION:

Why more sections? Portability.




Next question.........

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Originally Posted by Bamboozle

It should be all about what works best for you and your budget.

JMHO

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considering my budget I think I'll be having a go with the tomato stake...suppose I can find one in a 3 wt?

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Originally Posted by hugefish_80

considering my budget I think I'll be having a go with the tomato stake...suppose I can find one in a 3 wt?

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How many pieces? ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hugefish_80

considering my budget I think I'll be having a go with the tomato stake...suppose I can find one in a 3 wt?

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I think Ron still has a few at Hook & Hackle:p

I was thinking about 2 piece golf clubs so you could get them in the front of your VW Beetle.

Bob

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Originally Posted by Joe Valencic

I think Ron still has a few at Hook & Hackle:p

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I doubt that i could afford the shipping...besides then i would have to find the spine, pick out the guides, wrap the ferrules....

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Originally Posted by Bobinmich

I was thinking about 2 piece golf clubs so you could get them in the front of your VW Beetle.

Bob

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I put them in the back....unless you are talking about the original Beetle and not the New Beetle.....then you would be screwed.