Chicken Feed

Chicken feed

Our price for our feed was $15.18 per C one year ago. This was an increase from $13.18 per C. November 2007.
During this past year we have had it increase two more times. Went up to$19.18 per C, then up to $23.18 in November 2007.

I had this feed formulated by a now retired head Vet from Purina Mills Labs 11 years ago. Designed to produce Feathers, not eggs or meat. I have changed this formula several times to make it better. It is the best feed for my use I feel.

We have never increased our hackle prices. It has been the same 11 years ago as it is presently. What to do? I sure would like some feed back (no pun intended) from my customers.

This feed produces the best top quality hackle for us. Of course we see the fuel prices today costs me more to go to my mill and transport it to the Ranch or have them deliver it, 3 tons at a time and that cost has gone out of site also.

The other thread about costs sugests our electricity has also gone up. The lights in the barn, incubator and hatcher electricity usage is also up. It has big time I assure you.

Perhaps the answer is to produce fewer birds. We have already cut back production. May have to cut more.
As many of you know we do breed for colors no one else breed for. Some of these breedings take several generations to produce. This adds to the numbers, space and the one thing we do not talk about, labor.

For Liz & I it is a labor of love. I?m glad I am retired. We do not want to destroy this flock. It is an option we are not willing to think about yet.

I started this thread because I do not like to see another thread h-jacked.

You asked and I am looking foreword to input from all of you.

Denny

Denny,

As far as I am concerned, as your costs go up you have to adjust the price of your product. All the rest of the free enterprise system does it, why not you?

In the past decade prices for almost all of the items that we fly fishers use have gone up. It is to be expected.

You can reduce your production but that is a vicious trap to fall into, because with reduced production you have less product, hence the costs have to be divided into that reduced product, increasing costs per item and on and on.

Just figure out your costs and make a fair adjustment in price, I suspect most fly fishers would agree with that.

Larry --- sagefisher--- :D

This is easy for me, because I'm not in the business nor do I tie that much but it seems to be a no-brainer but I'm not trying to raise any hackles. ;) Your costs for just your feed (I'm guessing your number one cost) have increased by 75%+. When you established your business 11 years ago you established what you thought was a fair and reasonable price for your product and obviously based on the compliments from others about your hackles posted on this web site, your customers agree. It is always difficult to raise prices during inflationary times but it's my guess that your customer base would rather pay extra for your legendary product-line of hackles than see those same hackles fly the coop....

A couple of suggestions as these issues ponder in your head... You've put a lot of time and effort into your breeding program. Have you thought about somehow bringing others along?--somebody to carry on the fine art of raising hackles. So many on this site enjoy engaging in the construction of their own gear maybe some would consider raising a few hobby birds as well. You might be able to keep some of your lines going that way and reduce your cost. Finally, you might consider what so many of the organic farmers do--open up a subscription service whereby interested parties could "adopt" one of your hackle factories--of course the adoption fees would be set to cover your costs and would be determined by fluctuating costs like feed... You could send out little adoption papers over the net with pictures of their adopted bird....Good luck and I must say that it speaks well for you that this issue of raising prices is causing such a dilemma.

BW

Its probably not the wisest thing to say to someone you buy stuff from but then I am not the smartest guy on the block. So here goes my 2cents.
I have always wondered how you are able to sell your birds for so little. They are the best in quality and the lowest in price. I'd not be worried if the price went up a bit to meet and beat inflation.

If you buy a loaf of bread in a supermarket you spend a buck and you get what you pay for . If you buy a specialty loaf in a delicatesson you expect to pay a lot more because you know the quality is better and more effort went into the making. Its the same with your chickens. I expect to pay a little more for the higher quality product. It is a joy to tie with conranch hackle and a chore to tie with some of the other stuff out there . Your prices are a bit to low my friend, raise them. Wouldn't bother me a bit. I will still impulse buy every time I see that box of pelts you always bring to the fish-ins. I try not to go over and look but never can resist a bargain.

PS Also have you considered the fact that your product is now much better quality now than it was 11 years ago as you have steadily improved it? Better quality equals better worth in the market place.

Denny,

pretty much a no-brainer, buddy. Selling these fine feathers shouldn't cost you money. Raise your prices to what you think reflects the costs involved. Just good business. Based on the quality of your feathers alone, I doubt you'd be showing a loss of customers.

Just my .02 worth.

REE

Denny, raise your prices to what it takes to stay at a reasonable profit. I understand your birds are a labor of love. It would be a shame for all that genetic material, and your knowledge of it to go to waste.

Eric

Denny, RW here

I go along with what REE said. I wouldn't think twice about raising your prices. The quality of your product speaks for itself. On top of that you have a lot of loyal customers. Nobody is going to fault you for keeping pace with inflation.

Later, RW

I fully agree! Raise your prices! You, too, need a comfortable profit.

NEVER,,, NEVER,,, NEVER,,, cut quality. If the quality stays up,,, they will pay for it. Raise your prices to keep in line with the rising costs of production.

I agree with all that has been stated.

But Plse just don't pull an oil company !

Make a multi billion dollar profit, and then tell us you are hurting!

HA HA I completely know that that is not the case.

Raise the prise of the hackle to were you are again comfortable and loving what you are doing, never never sacrifice the quality, that is a Wal-Mart trick, and bad marketing strategy.

Thanks for the hackles, your product has made our hobby enjoyable.

Denny, since there's a little change left, out of the dollar, I'll use up my own .02 of it, here....................
You're faced with pretty close to the same problem Linda and I have. We breed pure bred Cairn Terriers as well as, Linda breeds and sells American Oberhausly Goats for "herd improvement stock" and dairy.
Also, from the goats, Linda and I several years ago started a "Goat's Milk line of personal care items. (Bath soaps, lip balm, hand cream, body lotions and 11 other products).
When we began each of these "ventures", our prices were set at a comfortable and competitive profit margin. But, as everyone else here, has pointed out "prices do not remain the same" as they were even a year ago, let alone 11!
So, when we raised our prices on our bath products, we did so to reflect the increases in our costs. We could have, "cheapened our goats milk products", by simply "using less milk". We could have easily done that, saved a lot of profit and STILL called our products "Goat's Milk Bath Products" and no one, would have been the wiser.
We refused to do that, and instead raised our prices. If a customer mentioned the price increase, we explained "why". That simple. In 2007, we shipped out a little over 3 tons in bar soap alone and never lost a customer, due to increased pricing.
Our dogs? Same story..................vet bills, got higher. Feed of course, went up. The shots and medications that we give our puppies, went sky high. We raised the adoption fee for the puppies and we still have waiting lists, for almost every litter?!
When my buddy, Henry Hoffman, sold his stock and eggs to Tom Whiting, I asked him, (in short), "Why sell out, Henry? You're at the TOP of the hackle game? You're a great guy and well respected a liked!" etc. etc.
The first thing he told me, was............. "Well, for ONE THING Paul, you can't take "being a nice guy", to the bank!" He was at a point, just like you are where the costs of producing hackle was outstripping his profit margin, 3 fold.
There were many other reasons Henry sold also, of course, but the increasing costs played a huge factor in him doing so.
I'd raise my prices, if I were in your shoes!! Why not? You cannot take "Nice guy" to the bank!

Raise the price so that you can keep this going. I would hate to see you drop any of the genetic lines you have. I don't charge the same thing I did 11 years ago in my business.
You have feed, fuel, electricty costs and some other things that have gone up. Your customers have to share in that.

Rick

PS Wait until after SowBug to see if I need anything. :)

I agree witheverything the other fellas have said....Your products are of the highest quality, and we all want it to remain that way. We tie flies for many reasons, and same for us that build rods and such. Saving money is not one of the reasons. I could have purchased a lifetime supply of flies for less than the cost of my tools alone, I think.
We will pay any increase in your prices with no quibble, I believe. We want you to stay in the business, and we're happy to support that. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say I speak for a majority of us...................ModocDan

I would be your competition has raised their prices some to reflect today's business costs. Seems like other have given you suggestions.

-wayne

Hi Denny,

Even when you are engaged in a labor of love, you are entitled to a fair profit and a decent living. None of your customers want you to working at loss. I would especially hate to see you cut back on research and development of new colors and strains. Raise the prices. We know you will be fair. We can take a price hike! You can only shield your customers from a price hike for so long without serious consequences to your wonderful operation. 8T :)

Denny:

Seems like everything lately has gone up (price wise). Your business should be no different!

While I have never bought any of your hackles, I am waiting to use up what I have and then will be buying from you - one, for the fact that you are a sponsor here and two, for the fact that everyone on this board speaks so highly of your feathers.

Please, Please, Please - Keep the quality, we will not mind paying more for your feathers.

It would be a great shame to lose all of your research, etc. that has gone into your birds. You deserve to make a good profit in order to survive in today's business world. Every other business out there has to raise their prices to keep up with things and your business should be no different.

You have a very good reputation out there, everyone understands that prices do have to go up.

hope this helps.

Take care,

George

never apologize for raising your prices when inflation is kicking you in the butt. For years people have raved about your capes and such. You deserve to make a good profit. Anyone who has been in business knows it is a heck of a lot for work for the money returned.

Denny I haven't bought from you yet, although, you have several skins I've been eyeing....my take is how much more would it raise your prices....is it comparable to the other companies. Simple Supply and Demand, there is a market for top grade quality skins which you produce. A simple change in price is going to have effect. But cost of production has also gone up which will have an effect.

Again, how much are the skins going to go up? I bet the price increase will be fair and probably still cheaper than your competitors.

Yes, it is basicly supply and demand. Are you selling all your product now? If so, it is safe to increase prices. Are you concerned that if you raise prices you won't sell as much product? If your main selling point is price, higher prices may lead to fewer sales. If your customers recognize you for your quality, they will stay with you. If you operate at 5% profit, raising prices only 5% will double your profit.

Greg

Denny, I have to admit that I have wondered how you were holding your prices down. I was an agriculture major (forestry and ad. education) in college and I have watched the prices of all your inputs increase more than steadily and yet your prices have remained the same. You have offered a very generous Christmas sale each year. Raise your prices in accordance with the things that you know and we can only guess at. It is your pencil, you have to push it to make things work out. I would rather pay more than see Conranch hackle disappear. Or, for the reader digest condensed version, I could have just quoted Ron Eagle Elk thru J. Castwell and left it at that. :)

Ed

Denny:

Raise your prices accordingly. You have explained why, you are crazy not to and the intelligent ones will accept it.

Just don't raise your prices for the same reasons and then change your company's name to Con*Mart, Conbela's, Convis or Conranch Pro Shops or you will be criticized incessantly and accused of greediness, gouging, and the use of slave labor!

;)

Besides; a year's supply of Conranch Hackle STILL costs way less that a year's supply of bottled water and who would have thunk that 11 years ago?

So when is the pre-increase sale?

:cool:

Denny,

I'm with the majority and would rather see you offering the product at a price you can live with, as opposed to not having Conranch Hackles available at all. While I've only purchased a few necks from you I'm favorably impressed, especially with the JV Rooster. I'd like to hope I'll be a repeat customer when the time comes I need some additional feathers. That won't happen if you can't make the business go. Therefore, I recommend you restructure your prices to more adequately reflect your costs. The quality is there. Keep up the good work and the customers will follow you.

Isn't a big factor ....the competition....their quality and prices..........

... pale by comparison! <there! I finished your sentence for you!>

I will continue to buy from you for the quality and the outstanding customer service.

Raise your prices - so you will still be in businness when I need more!

Denny,

I have not bought a lot of your feathers, but the ones that I have are every bit as good, if not better, than your competition at a SIGNIFICANT savings. Your prices have been a steal from the get go. The reality is after 11 years of "eating it" it's time for a price increase. Those who buy for the quality will understand, bargain shoppers should still see the bargain in buying a Conranch hackles.

I am with everyone here, raise your prices as needed to make a fair profit and continue the business/hobby/labor of love. As a user of your fine products, I want you to continue to produce fine hackles. For that to happen, you need to cover the cost of running your business and make a profit. Call me selfish, but I want you to raise your prices so your products are available to me and others. I am willing to pay!!!

Dr Bob

QUALITY ... is like buying oats. If you want nice, clean, fresh, oats, you must pay a fair price. However, if you can be satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse ... that comes a little cheaper!

Bill

With the cost of everything going up, you should raise your prices. You can't survive making everybody happy.

TS

Not sure I should say anything in this..as I've not purchased any hackle from you as yet...But Not, That I have not been looking and wanting too...As we all know. You, Are the ONLY hackle grower out there who gives so much more in your product when purchaseing a hen cape from you...But I've also Not purchased ANY Capes in the past 4 or so years...

I'd like to soon become a customer of your's!! and those plans will NOT change if and when your prices increase....I'll bet you'll still be well under what other's prices are,For what those others offer.

Bill, I had dithered about purchasing Conranch Hackle for a while, just like you. It was simply a matter of not getting around to it. I got around to it earlier this month and I'm really glad that I did. I'll probably get around to my next order in a few weeks. :)

It's kinda fun watching what has gone from being a post about chicken feed to a Conranch Lovefest, literally. I have this mental image of the news vans rolling up as the fly-tyers are rioting at the front gate to Conranch chanting "Charge us more! Charge us more!" The poor news crew would be at a total loss...

Ed, holding a placard saying, "Will work for Hackle".

Another idea.

If you need to raise prices and at the same time attract new customers you can opt for offering some of the feathers in smaller packs . I know that this will increase the ampount of labor but in order to stay in business you might have to do that same thing other companies are doing smaller packs are usually marked up for higher profit. At the same if you raise the prices on whole necks and saddles I'm sure that the people who use a lot of material will keep on buying them even for higher price.

We don't need hackle...anyone that ties quickly has more than they will ever use. We want it...and most would be surprised to see just how much we have already spent on our toys.

Raise the prices to where it makes the percentage profit you got when you started..and don't lose any sleep over it. You might even consider increasing the profit margin over that number, since as folks have pointed out...you have much better product now than you started with. Bredding those birds is a value add...more time in bloodlines means they are increasing the value of that feed more.

Many years ago, I decided to raise some Blue Andalusians chickens for their hackle. So, I located an Amish boy on a local farm who offered to keep them for me, and I ordered a few dozen day old chicks, which my wife found in a box on our doorstep several days later.

I supplied the feed and the teenaged Amish boy supplied the chicken pens, his love of all living things, and a youthful enthusiasm.

A day or two after I had taken the chickens to him, Leon called me on the phone -- he had to ride his bike to the neighbor's farm to use their phone because, as you know, Amish don?t have phones of their own.

"My dog ate all your chickens last night, Mr. Rhoades", Leon exclaimed, and I could almost sense the tears rolling down his cheeks as we talked. "My mom says I have to pay you to buy more, Mr. Rhoades."

"That's okay, Leon", "it wasn't your fault." So, I just bought some more birds and took them to the farm.

Over the next weeks and months, as the birds began to mature, we learned that some were hens, of course, and as luck would have it, less than half were roosters.

Leon keep calling to let me know when he needed feed, which I'd buy every time and take it to the farm. As the birds got older and bigger, of course, they ate more and more. And it wasn't long before we saw that not all of them were going to be the desired shades of gray that we were after, but were either white or black.

Even though I had a tidy sum invested at that point, I told Leon he was free to do whatever he wanted to with the hens, and these off-colored roosters, because by that time they were eating me out of house and home! We still had had a half dozen nice gray colored roosters left, and how many feathers can a fellow use anyway?

As late fall approached and those roosters fully matured, I had to go away from home on an extended business trip. I guess Leon called my wife twice in the same week, soon after I left home, and it was a couple days before I got the word from her.

"Apparently, these roosters are quite the fighters" my wife said. "Leon called a couple times this week and told me that you only had one bird left." "The others killed each other fighting."

I had never known that we should keep these birds in separate cages. "Oh, well." I sighed to my wife. For sure I wasn't going to openly admit defeat on the phone to her!

"But at least we won't have to be spending so much for feed" she said.

I felt pretty bad about the whole thing. But not so bad as when Leon called me shortly after my return, just before Thanksgiving.

"Mr. Rhoades, it's Leon again" he said, in his best Pennsylvania Dutch accent. "I chust wanted ta tell ya that yer last chicken died laast niet. Ant I skint it out for ya, ant I half the feathers heer at my house if ya want ta come by ant git them."

And so, I journeyed one last time to Leon's farm. I could see the sorrow in his eyes when he handed me those dun feathers from that last bird. There must have been a dozen feathers in total. Big dirty feathers, from somewhere on the saddle I suppose. I'd never even told him in all that time what feathers I most desired, nor had I asked him to keep any dead birds so I could skin them myself.

A short time later, I changed directions and decided to become a feather importer, but that?s another story!

All of that was over 30 years ago, but my wife still reminds me from time to time just how much chicken feed costs. You don't have to tell me, and please don't mention to my wife how much feed costs now --I've got enough problems of my own. (But, too bad you're so far away, because I know a farmer----)

John