Looking for a little help with dubbing needs

I am new to using dubbing pretty much and have a few kinds and want to get a little more than I would use . In other words if you had only what I have what would be your next few purchases in dubbing?

All I have is one of the little cubes with 30 colors of SLF Master Class Dubbing, one little case of Rabbit Natural All Purpose Dubbing and a little container of Crawdub. Other than these I have a lot of duck down ans some is still on the feathers and I need to take it off, but I have a baggie full of just it.

So what should be next?

Thanks in advance,

Skip

Skip,

Well, you could get a lifetimes supply of dubbing if you buy one rabbit skin of each of these colors: White, Blue, Red, and Yellow. Then you could cut the fur and blend in combinations to match any insect. You may have to search for the correct percentages of each color OR look on the labels of dubbings sold by Al Caucci, OR look into his book, 'Fly Tyers Color Chart. Once you get the hang of it, it's a snap.

Deezel

Skip48,

Have you thought about mixing your own? I mainly mix my own using a coffee grinder. If a particular pattern suggest a dubbing brand I'll look for it at my local fly shop, but most times I end up mixing my own which may not be exactly as the pattern describes.

Two words..... road kill

Skip,

It's really going to depend. I think you need to make some decisions on what you want to try and tie and let that decision guide you through your choices of dubbing.

First decide on dry?s or wets 'cause you'll use different dubbing for both. If I'm going to dub dry fly bodies I tend to use fine & dry or micro fine types. Things like muskrat and beaver under fur (without the guard hairs) makes nice bodies as well. Some basic colors to have would be various shades of Olive, Sulphur, gray or Dark Dun, black and Hendrickson Pink. You can decide on shades based on the hatches that occur in your area but don't get too concerned about having to be too specific. When in doubt, ask at your local fly shop or ask some tiers in your area if they have any recommendations on colors.

For wets and nymphs that need dubbing (you can tie a bunch that don't - such as princes, pheasant tails, copper johns, etc) stick with things that have a rabbit, squirrel, 'possum, muskrat, beaver or other fur based dubbing that includes the under fur and guard hairs that will give that spiky buggy look. I'd start with a basic hare's mask for Gold Ribbed Hares Ears, other colors from the aforementioned list of animal based dubbings would include colors like, caddis cream, olive shades (light, med and dark), fox squirrel, ginger, bright green (a deadly caddis larvae and pupae color).

You can narrow or broaden this list as much as your interest and wallet will allow. Typically, dubbing's not that expensive. Even the premium stuff is rarely over $3 a pack and a lot of stuff can be had at under a buck and a half. Think more about what you want to tie and then make some decisions. Remember you don't have to get it all a one time. A few pack here and there and before you know it you'll have a bunch.

Once you have a reasonable depth of color range and type then you can start blending those with a coffee grinder or just a small jar and water to get specific blended colors you think you'll need.

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Originally Posted by dudley

Two words..... road kill

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dudley "The Helpful." At least you could have warned him NOT to pick up a dead skunk! (In the middle of the Road) :lol:
Doug

For dry flies, try beaver dubbing. It's great.

For flashy/steelhead/panfish/gaudy/heavy flies, try Ice Dub. Great stuff. It draws the attention.

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Originally Posted by DShock

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Originally Posted by dudley

Two words..... road kill

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dudley "The Helpful." At least you could have warned him NOT to pick up a dead skunk! (In the middle of the Road) :lol:
Doug

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Yes and your wife might not like you to stop in the rain on the way to a formal dance to pick up a dead mallard--BILL

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Originally Posted by William Fitzgerald

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Originally Posted by DShock

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Originally Posted by dudley

Two words..... road kill

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dudley "The Helpful." At least you could have warned him NOT to pick up a dead skunk! (In the middle of the Road) :lol:
Doug

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Yes and your wife might not like you to stop in the rain on the way to a formal dance to pick up a dead mallard--BILL

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Bill,
Is that First Hand experience???? :lol:

Thanks some good info here and I do need to think it out a little, but I don't want to be tied to any one type either. Like wet or dry, I want to tie both.

Thanks for all the good info,

Skip

Skip,

Rabbit dubbing can be used for any fly: dry, wet, nymph, emerger, streamer, etc. You can even make zonkers from rabbit strips. The determining factor about the dubbing's 'spikiness' depends on whether you leave the guard hairs in or pull them out of the fur as you cut bunches off of the hide.

Anyway, good luck and have fun deciding what you need to use.

Deezel

My two cents worth - I have bought tons of dubbing, thinking I would need it. Fact is, I use superfine for dries and mix my own hares mask.

Everything else I own is a waste of space really, I hardly use it.

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Originally Posted by DShock

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Originally Posted by dudley

Two words..... road kill

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dudley "The Helpful." At least you could have warned him NOT to pick up a dead skunk! (In the middle of the Road) :lol:
Doug

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Doug....you know that's how I got my skunk....Sometimes people have to learn these things for themselves 8)

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Originally Posted by Gringo

My two cents worth - I have bought tons of dubbing, thinking I would need it. Fact is, I use superfine for dries and mix my own hares mask.

Everything else I own is a waste of space really, I hardly use it.

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http://www.vpsingles.com/pics/thumbsup.gif
Excellent advice from down under

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Originally Posted by Gringo

My two cents worth - I have bought tons of dubbing, thinking I would need it. Fact is, I use superfine for dries and mix my own hares mask.

Everything else I own is a waste of space really, I hardly use it.

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Gringo,
This is very good advice, but it ruins the FUN of buying more & more stuff at the Fly Shop or online! :lol:
Doug :D

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Originally Posted by dudley

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DShock

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dudley

Two words..... road kill

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dudley "The Helpful." At least you could have warned him NOT to pick up a dead skunk! (In the middle of the Road) :lol:
Doug

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Doug....you know that's how I got my skunk....Sometimes people have to learn these things for themselves 8)

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"TOUGH LOVE??" :lol:

Skip;

Go to a dog park and set up a dog brushing stand. Get a different ziplock bag for each dog. (Some dogs have multiple colors of 'dubbing' nad require more than one bag.) There are lots of different colors and textures and 'blends' to be had.

One of my favorite dubbing blends is the gray,black,tan blend from the haunches of my old rotty/german shepherd mix. Man I miss her. She was a good dog, and for more than just dubbing. :D

Skip,
In the old days, I used a mix of rabbit dubbing & whatever coarse buggy dubbing I wanted to use, hare's mask, beaver, otter......Take portions of each and put them in a coffee grinder, twist cap to turn on grinder
and there you go, custom dubbing!! This is something you can do if you want to, but there is a great selection of dubbing for sale now. It might be interesting to grind the new dubbing colors though.
I wouldn't worry to much about about having a lot of different colors as far as dries and nymphs, but if you tie steelhead or salmon flies, the bright colors are interesting.
Doug

Doug - you are quite correct.

I have fine, superfine, floating, sinking, rough, spikey, bright or dull and every combination therein. I have every known dubbing made by man or beast, and will still fall into the trap again the next time a new dubbing comes out. My containers overflow, my drawers are full. No dog or cat comes near me uninspected. My sheep, horses, cows, guinea pigs and rabbits all contribute reluctantly. I still check hair brushes. I stop the car beside flattened animals, I peel fluff off carpet in hotel dining rooms and pick at display clothes in shops.

Still, I pretty much only use SLF superfine or hares mask.

And I can guarantee that the next pattern I decide to tie, I won't have the right dubbing. Now, as for feathers....

I have thought about my dongs, LOL! I have a couple of cockers and one has very thick hair and he's black and white. The other is black/whits and a few brown spots, but his hair is thinner.

Feathers? I have a ton of them and still buy some with every order from hareline.

Thanks for all the tips and recommendations.

Skip

Hi,

As Gringo suggested, for most natural looking patterns, so primarily tan through brown to black, a hare's mask will be all you need. I picked up a fox squirrel pelt, and it is also really good and would be an alternative.

If you tie attractor patterns as well, then small bundles of wool (size of shoe laces type thing, not whole balls of wool) can be a source of good dubbing material that doesn't cost a lot and comes in a wide variety of colours. Once you have a good selection of shades, then experiment with blending them.

- Jeff

Deezel,

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Well, you could get a lifetimes supply of dubbing if you buy one rabbit skin of each of these colors: White, Blue, Red, and Yellow. Then you could cut the fur and blend in combinations to match any insect. You may have to search for the correct percentages of each color OR look on the labels of dubbings sold by Al Caucci, OR look into his book, 'Fly Tyers Color Chart. Once you get the hang of it, it's a snap.

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Have you tried this approach?

For me it simply does not work.

This mixing of primary colors in strands of dubbing, fine this rabbit may be, simply comes out as a mix or the colors used, not the colors of the chips on the color card.

Dubbing strands are not liquid, they are not paste, they do not turn other colors simply because they get color-mixed 8)

Cheers,
Hans W

Hi,

I know blending the wool gives a different look, so blending say light olive and brown will result in something darker than the olive, lighter than the brown, etc. From a distance, if you blurr your vision, or view from a distance, the colour does mix. However, viewed up close, the individual strands are clearly distinguishable. Fine rabbit dubbing might mix more completely, so what I'm thinking here may not translate to the finer material.

Anyway, if fish vision focuses on high spatial frequencies, then their view will be crisp and the colour strands won't blend but will be seen as individual stands of the primary colours. However, if fish vision is tuned more to lower spatial frequencies (think blurry vision; which helps locate the bulk of the object rather than worry about it's fine details; centre of mass vs leg and wing detail), then the colours would probably blend. It's like the paitings made by dotting the primary colours on the canvas, up close you see the dots, stand further away and our vision can no longer see the fine detail and blends the dots and we see the "mixed" colour.

I've noticed that the blue throat on an Invicta looked green because it sits over the yellow body, but this is looking at the fly sitting on the table some distance away. Pick it up, bring it closer, and no "colour shift" occurs.

More commonly, the colour change is a bit of a "toning down" type thing. For example, the thoraxes on these two flies use the same orange wool, but in the first it is blended with some yellow, while in the 2nd it is just the orange:

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g142/ ... mphjpg.jpg
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g142/ ... flymph.jpg


In any case, I suspect all approaches will catch fish, and different approaches will appeal to different people. Experiment with different techniques, and employ the ones you enjoy and have the most confidence in. The goal is to have fun and enjoy what you are doing!

- Jeff

Quote:

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Originally Posted by William Fitzgerald

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DShock

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dudley

Two words..... road kill

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dudley "The Helpful." At least you could have warned him NOT to pick up a dead skunk! (In the middle of the Road) :lol:
Doug

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Yes and your wife might not like you to stop in the rain on the way to a formal dance to pick up a dead mallard--BILL

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On the other hand, for a road-kill, wood duck drake, well, she'd just have to understand... ;)

Ed

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Originally Posted by EdD

On the other hand, for a road-kill, wood duck drake, well, she'd just have to understand... ;)

Ed

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I am luck enough to have several Wood Duck Drake's feathers and have them stored with some other duck feahters in a couple of 5 gallon buckets, not full, but a lot of feathers.

We have lots of Wood Ducks here in East Texas on the lake I live on.

Skip

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gringo

My two cents worth - I have bought tons of dubbing, thinking I would need it. Fact is, I use superfine for dries and mix my own hares mask.

Everything else I own is a waste of space really, I hardly use it.

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Bingo, Gringo! My thoughts exactly. I also tend to substitute punch yarn on my nymphs. Works great for a lot of patterns and is cheap and easy to use. Not quite a buggy looking as hare's mask dubbing, though, without some roughing up.

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Originally Posted by JeffHamm

Hi,
I've noticed that the blue throat on an Invicta looked green because it sits over the yellow body, but this is looking at the fly sitting on the table some distance away. Pick it up, bring it closer, and no "colour shift" occurs. Jeff

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You mentioned this and it made me think of some variegated chenille I that I ordered of Black & FL Yellow and when you look at it the Black make the Yellow look more like FL Chartreuse or a green tint to it and there is no green there at all.

It's funny how colors bounce off other colors and change the look.

Thanks,

Skip

One other question....do any of you use Buggy Nymph Yarn in place of dubbing? I had some people think I was using dubbing when actually on the fly in question I used the Buggy Nymph Yarn.

Skip

Visit your local taxidermist and furrier for scraps. It'll also increase your hair supply.

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Originally Posted by LouT

Visit your local taxidermist and furrier for scraps. It'll also increase your hair supply.

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Great Idea, Thanks!

That strung CDC yarn is great if you are in to CDC dries.

after i come my dog i just use it and as soon as i find out how to im going to start dying it.