Stinky Flies ?

I was reading Terry & Roxanne Wilson?s book (Bluegill Fly Fishing & Flies), noted more than one reference to their NOT using head cement, in that ?. . . we believe bluegills use their sense of smell in examining their prospective meal.? Struck me that I couldn?t recall having ever seen the subject of scent addressed in any manner other than general warnings about not handling terminal tackle with gasoline, sun block, bug repellent on your hands.

I can?t imagine the ?aroma? of moth balls or anything else used to help preserve tying materials is an attractant of any sort. What do folks use to neutralize the smells that must get attached to flies when they?re tied . . . material preservatives, cements, paints, that armpit (or worse) you were scratching just before tying on the deerhair wing.

Surely there?s some universally recognized technique for dealing with smells that slipped right by me, . . . right ?


smc

WD-40?

Conversations about the worries of scents from head cement is something we used to talk about at the local fly club and some folks "pre-soak" their flys in water before use. The late Carl Hansen (Hansen's Glass Minnow) didn't use any cement on his flies.

Most recently I read this from one of Marv Taylor's articles in FAOL:

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Tip #1- Avoid the use of any head cement or other chemicals when tying your wet flies.
I'm a firm believer that anglers leave "scent tracks" on almost everything they touch when fishing. Salmonids have superb olfactory senses. How else can salmon and steelhead find their way back to their place of birth, if they can't follow the scent of that tiny central Idaho stream as it mingles with the Salmon River, flows then into the Snake, finally to merge with the mighty Columbia River. Being able to pick up the scent of its home waters at the mouth of the Columbia and follow it home to that little creek in Idaho's Sawtooth range, boggles the mind. If they can do that, they sure as heck can detect the odor of head cement and other chemicals on our wet flies. I think this tip is actually worth about 20-percent.

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(20% means it will improve your stillwater trout fishing by 20%!) In tip#2, he talks of hand washing to limit scents. Here is the link to the article:

http://www.flyanglersonline.com/feat...kes/part2.html

...I avoid using head cement on all wet flies. Marv Taylor's articles are really good reading..

I fish 99% of the time in fast river water. I fish for trout as well as bluegill, bass, etc. I use Sally Hanson on all my flies as head cement and I cannot say that I have had any problems with catching fish due to any odors on my flies. Now bug repellant, gasoline, oil, etc. are different stories. Fishing in still water like ponds could present a different case all together. The river current does a pretty good job of cleaning any odors from my flies. I do not use any special cleaning agents to wash my hands during fishing either. Maybe my body odor just smells like fish food! :lol: :lol:

To sum it up, there are some odors that will be offensive to fish and we should try to eliminate them if at all possible. In support of the article, pond fishing is different than river fishing. Two different types of water require two different styles of fishing.

Just my opinion and nothing more.

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Originally Posted by DShock

WD-40?

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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

That is what we all use, right? How far could it go this time?

I am waiting for the Hot Buttered Popcorn or Fresh Baked Bread scent....no who could refuse that! Plus the butter wouls be some sort of water repelant wouldn't it!
We use to use a FOG MACHINE while playing and people would complain that the smoke was killing them, funny thing is, it wasn't smoke, it is more or less steam from oil like a humidifier. I kept thinking if they could come out with either of those scents in a fog, can you imagine what the Bar Kitchen would be doing! MONEY, MONEY!
Anyway, I use Zap-A-Gap for the heads of my flies and I haven't noticed any catch rate going down. Never even considered head cement. The one time I did fish for Bluegills, I will say I am happy I used head cement. Catching one on almost every cast, I don't think I could handle it if it did make a difference :lol:

This past Saturday morning, Joe Hyde, Rick Zieger and I fished for bluegills. All of us caught fish. I use Sally Hansons on my flies. Joe was fishing "old reliable" that he bought from Cabelas and Rick was using flies he tied. Whether Rick uses head cement or not I'm not sure. It could be that the nose of a Missouri bluegill is more sensitive than those here in Iowa. But then again, Missouri does not have the big hog lots that we do here, so maybe our bluegills think anything other than hog manure is pleasant and should be eaten.

ive used sally hansens on my head for a while and it has not affected my "catch rate" or "strikes" .but then again these are just ignorant hatchery trout 8)

chris

I use head cement on all my flies and still catch large numbers of bass, brim and even the all time champion of scent detection, catfish. 90% if my fishing is still water so there is no current to whisk away offensive odor. I just don't believe that most fish are that bothered by head cement and other glues once they have cured for a couple of days. I make a real effort to keep my flies free of gasoline, oil, bug dope and sun screen. I do try to find some rock slime or lake mud to rub on new flies before I use them. Just my 2% of a dollar. I'm sure others will disagree. 8T :D

I use Sally Hansons on most of the flies and zap-a-gap on a few.
I have not seen any difference in how the flies work again those with no head cement.
I played with flies side by side to see if it made any difference.

Sunday at 5am I tyed 3 flies used head cement. 730 am first cast at small farm pond caught a 2 lb Bass. By 9am had caught 5 more Bass and 2 10 inch gills. Glue didn't seem to bother them. BTW all were released to catch another day.

Anybody think aromatic soaps that you might use either tying or fishing could be a problem?

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Originally Posted by ducksterman

Anybody think aromatic soaps that you might use either tying or fishing could be a problem?

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Have you ever used IRISH SPRING soap?? That stuff smells like DTT!! I might start using it since so many women are hitting on me! :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Originally Posted by Wild One

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Originally Posted by DShock

WD-40?

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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

That is what we all use, right? How far could it go this time?

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You and I are on the same WAVE LENGTH today! :lol:

I use Sally and CA Superglue and catch a lot of fish so the glue has not caused refusals for me that I am aware of anyway.

IMHO there is no evidence head cement is an issue.

Having said that..and on a Little different approach....how about this....

Since there is some evidence...[read that opinion] that Oil of Olay has fish attracting qualities....if I were making a living fishing ...or did it a whole lot....I believe I would use a body soap...a hand soap..[certainly before tying]...and a camping soap...with Oil of Olay in it.

How's that for going over the edge 8) :roll:

My mother used to put Oil of Olay on her lap dog after she washed it . . . claimed it helped keep fleas away !

Thanks, guys. At least cements apparently aren't an issue.


smc

I guess I am in the minority of the minority that is WWFF. :lol:

At least for me, the issue isn?t catching vs not catching. It is about consistently catching large fish (for gills: >1 lb). IMHO, large fish grew to be large because they are more discriminate eaters than their feisty, perpetually hungry, smaller brethren. This may not be true all the time, but I believe it to be true most of the time.

Bluegill aren't the hardest fish to catch and when someone writes a book about the subject, consistently catching large bluegill is usually the topic because that is not easy.

Thanks, BassYakker, you're back on topic. Obviously, I should have been more explicit, but it seems like the topic is about half a step out of sync with the rest the parade.

Thanks, too, for reminding me about the Marv Taylor articles, just wish he'd been a little more specific about the soap referenced in Tip #2. I'll have to keep an eye out for waterless unscented liquid soap . . . maybe with hunting supplies ? . . . but I'm afraid I'll find 'unscented soap' on a shelf real near the 'odorless mineral spirits'.

Close, maybe, but no cigar.



smc

When I was a kid, the best bait we used on trotlines for catfish was P&G soap. It's ivory soap without the name.
cut it in half inch squares, roll it in cornmeal, (so it's easier to handle with wet hands) and poke it on the hooks. Works like a charm.

Kirk

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Originally Posted by anglerdave

<snip> It could be that the nose of a Missouri bluegill is more sensitive than those here in Iowa. But then again, Missouri does not have the big hog lots that we do here, so maybe our bluegills think anything other than hog manure is pleasant and should be eaten.

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Please let me disabuse you of that idea.

Back on topic, I think that the repeated close contact with trees leaves, twigs, branches, and weeds removes the scent from my flies. Just yesterday I had to remind a woolly bugger that getting snagged in poison ivy results in a status of NRP, No Rescue Practical.

I use head cement and it doesn't seem to have any affect, other than helping my flies to withstand close contact with leaves, twigs, etc...

Ed

Not sure if there's any science, or even anectdotal references, to support this. But I've long suspected that once you catch your first fish on an artificial lure or fly, that the fish's mouth slime (or body slime if it gets transferred from your hand to the fly after releasing the fish) will act as a camouflaging agent that hides other scents the lure or fly may be carrying.

In other words, starting with whatever scents a fly carries when tied to your leader, once it fools that first fish it becomes imbued with scents that are completely natural to the environment it's swimming through.

This is one reason why I'm reluctant to indulge in fly-changing frenzies. I might switch flies many times if doing so is needed in order to find a pattern they'll take. And I might switch many times just for curiousity reasons -- after I've caught enough fish to eat. But when I'm fishing for the table, once I find a pattern that works I generally stick with it, because after fooling that first fish the fly has literally been made "fishy" by none other than the very critters I'm after.

Again, I have no evidence that a mouth-slimed fly works better than a fly taken right off the tying vice and cast into the water with its head cement still wet.


Joe
"Better small than not at all."

Joe,

I don't know if your right or wrong, but I too have always thought the same thing about the "fishey" smell. Even last night I was fishing with an "old reliable", caught several fish quickly, and then it got hung up and I had to break it off. I tied another one on, but it didn't "fish" as well. Maybe just all in my head, but not as many fish were on my line either :o

Carl

There's always the other side of the story...
I can't tell you how many times I've put on a new fly and had a take on the first cast or two and thought that I had the answer..... only to not get another...
What's going on????...I have even thought the opposite of what you guys are saying above.....maybe there is some fright thing the caught fish "contaminated my fly with" :(

Exactly, ducksterman.

Have you ever caught a channel catfish on a fly, and then the bluegills (which you'd been catching) refused to touch it afterward? I have. Sure makes you wonder.

ducksterman,

There is no telling how many times, while searching for a fly that the fish wanted, that I would get a take on the first cast and then nothing after that. What I think has happened is that when you made your first cast the fly was bone dry and when it hit the water it acted more like a bug just hit the water and you received a reaction strike. Once the fly was wet it did not react the same on the next cast and the fish just refused it. Hopefully, that makes sense.

It does Warren...for dry flies....but I'm doing mostly wet lake fishing now....maybe the "new" flies trap air bubbles better???

I feel the same holds true for my nymph flies. On the first cast all the material in the nymph is dry which causes it to want to float when it first lands on the water and then it starts to absorb water and starts a slow sink. On the next cast it makes no attempt to float and sinks much faster since it is now loaded with water and heavier.

Why don't you just come fish with me for a few days and we will fish and discuss this further! :) I know I would like that.

I too would like that...I'm not much of a traveler but if you are ever out this way you are welcome :D

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Originally Posted by WarrenP

There is no telling how many times, while searching for a fly that the fish wanted, that I would get a take on the first cast and then nothing after that.

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For bass, I think it is very true.

In the lake I fish, there is a retention pond that empties into the lake and after a good rain you can plop a small fly in the swirling runoff and fish it like stream nymph fishing. In this setting, I have noticed the same phenomenon; if I get a hit but not a hookset, to get another hit quickly, I have to change patterns (not just get another identical fly). But I think it is because the fish are trying out everything that is flowing by them and they quickly identify what is food and what isn?t food. I can continue using the same fly, but I have to wait awhile before I get another hit with it (I attribute that to a new fish has entered the picture that hasn?t tried my offering yet).

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Originally Posted by Joe Hyde

Exactly, ducksterman.

Have you ever caught a channel catfish on a fly, and then the bluegills (which you'd been catching) refused to touch it afterward? I have. Sure makes you wonder.

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yes that has happe ned to me! and after i release the cat i put the fly near the bluegills that were gulping it downa second ago and they shy away from it :shock:

hmmm........