Hi my amigos and amigas!
Can someone comment on furrled leaders in freshwater use? How do they affect castability? Do they wind knot less? Presentation?
Thanks for your input! -Migs
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Hi my amigos and amigas!
Can someone comment on furrled leaders in freshwater use? How do they affect castability? Do they wind knot less? Presentation?
Thanks for your input! -Migs
Furled leaders cast beautifully. They turn over readily and seem to promote tight loops. But I'm not a fan of furled leaders. They seem to collect just as many wind knots as mono leaders. Getting a knot out of a furled leader is quite difficult. My biggest gripe is that all the furled leaders I have tried in moving water sink like a stone and cause my fly to drag. I know I can treat them with a floatant and keep them on top, but ff'ing is filled with enough things to fiddle with w/o worrrying about my leaders.
Just my $.02,
Harry
I've had the opposite results. With my limited experience, i've never gotten a wind knot with furled leaders. Something I can't say for regular mono leaders.
what canerods said except to also add that I like them for nymphing for the same reasons they don't work as well for dries. They sink fast. I don't have that many problems with wind knots in them (at least no more than I do with other leaders)but they are a pain to unknot.
I use my homemade furled leaders for most of my dry fly fishing. They layout better than anything else I have tried. I can take a 9' leader in my bare hand and lay it out to it's full length with just a flick of my wrist, I doubt anyone could do that with a mono leader.
It's true that they sink if not treated, I treat mine with the same paste I use as a fly floatant (Loon's Aquel) and they float just fine all day long. I might spend a whole 30 seconds applying the paste, about the same time I would spend straightening a mon leader. I fish a lot of very fast/rough mountain streams and the treated furled leaders float better than mono.
I have rarely had any wind knots or tangles, but when you do get a knot they are much more difficult to remove.
Furled leaders made from tying thread are very durable. It's not uncommon for me to fish the same leader each weekend for the whole season, just changing the tippet
as it gets used up.
I don't like to use the furled leaders for my nymphing. On my local streams the depth changes constantly, so I am always cutting and re-tying leader sections to adjust. So I use a tapered mono leader and cut the heck out of it. I also don't like to use split shot on the furled leaders, it cuts them up too much.
Hi,
I really enjoy all the different answers to your questions, and I hope you do, too. Its nice to know that there's room for so many different preferences in fly fishing. Keeps it interesting.
I only use furled leaders. They're known for their supple turnover and delicate presentation with dry flies (and I can use all the help I can get). I like them wet for nymphing, though I don't nymph much.
Treating them to make them float doesn't bother me (I'm using a silk line - the same silk line for years - so I'm treating that anyway), and I like being able to NOT treat part of the leader if I want part of it to sink. While I use Unithread, I've heard that leaders made of nymo beading thread and of gel spun both float much better.
As for wind knots, they are a bear, but best if caught early and untied from the middle.
Just my 2 cents,
Kat
I switched over to furled leaders this past season and love them. They lay out more easily for me and I think I only experienced one wind knot during the entire season. If you've ever seen me cast, you'd realize how amazing that fact is. They do tend to snag a bit more crud from the water, but not enough to make it a problem.
Great leaders and Kathy Scott's CD does a terrific job showing you how to build your own. Well worth the investment.
Jim Smith
Friends:
So which furrled leaders (brand?) would you recommend? Ive seen the Feather Craft ones. Are they good? They also have Fluorocarbon ones as well. What to choose?
Migs
Migs, there a a bunch of people here on FAOL that furl their own leaders. If you want to try some out, let us know what sort of fishing you do (line weight, rod length, what type of fish, etc...), and you'll end up with a bunch of furled leaders to try out.
Regards,
Joe Martin
Migs, PM Kathy Scott. Ive got one of her furled leaders and am planning on buying more. Im not the best caster and they have really helped me. Kathy is right. If you catch the wind knots before they really tighten there not too hard to get out. Regards-Clyde
:D
Migs;
You have a pm. I've got so many furled leaders I'll never use them all in my lifetime. And they cost just pennies to make!
A tip of my hat to Jack Hise (and all of you!) -Migs
Does anybody use the little rings that Feather Craft uses? It sure seems like a good idea for tying on tippet if it works.
Gramps,
Some of the mono furled leaders I have use the small rings to attach the tippet. Makes cutting off the old tippet real easy. I just attach the tippet to the ring with an improved clinch knot.
The thread furled leaders I have don't have the metal rings, but do have a loop for loop to loop connections. Again, changing tippets is easy. Just tie a perfection loop in the tippet and your ready to go.
The metal rings weigh very little so a bit of mucellin or other floatant would help keep them on top of the water. I have never lost a fish due to a failure of the metal ring. I also have never noticed any hinging when casting this setup.
REE
I've been using the BlueSky furled leaders. It has a small loop on the tippet end and i've been using a clinch knot to attach my tippet, because I have a hard time making a small enough loop in the tippet. I like the idea of the small ring instead, and was thinking of switching to the Feather Craft leaders. It would be safer with my eyes when I cut the tippet off the leader.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Eagle Elk
I've lost the sight in one eye,and of course my depth perception is poor. I can see with a magnifier, but I can't line things up. It's comical watching me tie knots. :(
:D
A couple are on the way when I stop at the P.O. tomorow a.m.
I have been making and using furled leaders since 1994. Here is an excerpt from my files on the pro and cons of thread furled leaders. Leaders made of mono exhibit different characteristics.
******
The following advantages and disadvantages apply to the thread furled leaders. My apologies in advance if the indents in the text get misaligned.
Regards,
Jim Cramer
Advantages
o Memory Free
o Positive turnover provides increased accuracy
o Reduced micro-drag
o Natural elasticity protects light tippets
o Gentle presentation eliminates leader slap
o Compatible with a wide variety of tippet sizes
o User Friendly, not prone to wind knots (however one can form wind knots if they try, *S*)
o High-visibility assists the angler in the tracking
small flies in adverse light conditions
o Good retention of paste floatants
o Excellent knot strength
o Far less spray than hollow braided leaders, comparable to monofilament leaders
o Inexpensive, if you make your own
o Custom leaders can be designed with a wide latitude in tapers and characteristics to meet many angling situations
o Good longevity, reports of leaders lasting several seasons are not uncommon
o When used for nymphing, a bright colored leader serves both as a strike indicator and a drag indicator.
Disadvantages
o Positive turnover increases difficulty with curve and 'trick' casts
o Some thread leaders can mildew if put away wet in a warm dark place
o Will collect dirt if used in scum covered waters and will not float until cleaned
o Knots are difficult to remove
o Keep you back cast up as the leaders are very difficult to remove from the brush
Furled leaders are not the answer to every fishing situation but they do excell at many.
I read this ten times and still don't know what you said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hise
:D
Gramps;
It's a secret code taken from my days working for the National Security Agency!
In reality I asked Migs to pm his snail mail address so I could send him a thread and a flourocarbon leader.
These are 10/8/6 6.5 foot leaders using 24" butt, 30" intermediate and 30" tippit end.
Insert "way" after "the"Quote:
Originally Posted by Gramps
That was easier than breaking the Japanese code :P
:oops:
Thanks Duckster!
I actually figured it out after I wrote my post. but was to lazy to remove it.
I'll blame the lazyness on my age.
I's be interested in how mono furled leaders compare? it seems everybody who makes furled leaders on this forum use thread, and commercial furled leaders are mono. How come?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cramer
All mono furled leaders retain some degree of stiffness compared to thread furled leaders. This stiffness negates many of the adavantages afforded by the thread furled leaders such as memory free, soft presentation etc. Where presentation is not critical, such as salt water fishing, mono furled leaders are quite useful.
Thread also allows the leader maker many more options in the leader design. for example one of my most useful and popular tapers is a five step taper with 22 strands in the butt. Using even 2 pound test mono would give me a butt section testing about 50 pounds and being too heavy/ thick for trout fly fishing. ( FYI: Furling many strands will yield a higher breaking strength than the sum of the individual strands)
As to why commercial manufactors use mono I would guess that they believe that mono leaders will be more readily accepted by the general public. It takes a leap of faith to change to a visible leader if you have used nothing but mono all your life.
Do any of you sell furled leaders? You've convinced me that thread is better, but I don't know where to buy them.
I see you use floatant to make them float for dries. Can you just not use floatant for nymphs? Do any of you use the little rings?
Pete,
Yes, I sell furled leaders. Please check you message center.
Regards,
Jim Cramer
jimcramer@sbcglobal.net
I am very interested in this subject. I have never tried furled leaders and have never seen them at any of my local shops. If anyone is interested to spare a few I would be more than happy to send you a couple of bucks.
I typically use a 3w with a 12ft 7x leader. I fish dries and nymphs. Would furled leaders be good for this application? Also, where I fish the trouts are VERY spooky.
I have tied some (KATHY SCOTTS formula) in Coats and Clark NYLON (clear or smoked) in .004 and .005. Not as soft as UNI but real close and definitly softer than mono. Cheap also.
As for sales in stores, I always think that's interesting.
Maybe its a little like cane fly rods - the people who make them usually either have a waiting list /backlog or they give them away to friends. I have some in a few shops, but I sure don't see furled leaders much in other places. With no commercial backing for the resurgence of such a grassroots but IMHO effective craft, anglers who see no ads in magazines (maybe Blue Sky, maybe Feathercraft) don't ask at shops, probably. I'm sure everyone who tries them and also likes them is puzzled with their "underground" existance.
Darrel Martin's new book gives a nice illustrated nod to them, and Jim Cramer has certainly written of them for years, but basically, there's just word of mouth and support (like here on FAOL), as well as the demos many of us do at gatherings and shows. That lack of information is why we made the dvd in the first place :-)
Just musings,
Kat
Hello Kathy Scott, well furled leaders are catching on as I've seen them being used and asked about them as far west as Oregon on the Umpqua River and the gentleman that was telling me about them was up from the greater Los Angeles area. So I'd say they're catching on fast !
Cheers,
MontanaMoose
I know I've sold a few of Kathy's DVD's for her. It really puts things in perspective.(sp)
I've only talked to one guy who didn't like furled leaders. He was a Thomas&Thomas rep that I talked to at Bob Marriotts show. He said they landed nice, but caused too much of slash on lifting them off the water.
I was surprised by this, because I thought one of the advantages was they lifted soft.
I've heard others say that too. Personally, I don't see anymore than a hand tied mono. Beside I don't lift till I am at the end of the float and out of the zone of fish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gramps
MM and all - I'd have to agree: certainly, the interest and use has exploded in the last ten years.
At one point, I started keeping track on a map of the USA of all of the furlers with whom I've had personal contact. I have dots on every state, and a couple dozen countries. There's even a furled leader forum now, a bulletin board dedicated to the craft. My 8th graders in our fly fishing club are making them to support a spring club trip here in Maine. And although my preference is to use them for small streams and pond fishing, I've talked to anglers who've adapted them to tarpon and bonefish.
I think its pretty safe to say that more anglers know about them now that any time since the fifties, when they disappeared for a while, but I do wonder what the overall percentage might be.
Kat
I have a question while we're on the subject. Do any of you furlers make them for a spey casting application? If so, do you have a formula? Material?
I tie my own using the two leg method on a pegged board, and a cannonball weight that is hand spun. I prefer this method, so if anyone has a two-handed rod, furled leader formula that fits that method please let me know.
Thank you.
Bill
Guess I may be the odd man out.
I'm not particularly fond of furled leaders. I've tried 5 from 4 different makers. 3 were light(2-4 wt) and 2 were medium(4-6 wt). I'd much rather use mono or a braided leader. Just my $0.02 for all that's worth.
Hendrickson
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendrickson
BRAIDED :?: Reeeaaalllyy. curious, why?
Does using a furled leader in any situation help cause less tangling ...wind knots...just better efficiency in laying out the fly....e.g. would it be worthwhile in stillwater subsurface fishing?
Goddess,
The original poster asked for our opinion. I gave it. My preference for leaders is based on how I view overall performance:
Tapered mono
knotted mono
braided
furled
However, like most things in fly fishing or tying, there is no lacking for a diversity of opinions and any one is not necessarily more right than others. They are just more right for the individual who is giving it.
Hendrickson
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendrickson
Cool, I didn't mean to sound like I was attacking, I am just curious as to what there is about braided you like more than a furled. Maybe, something I have overlooked
PEACE :wink: