CDC Problem

tied up a few flies withCDC the other day, and went to try them out an they sank. What went wrong? isn't CDC supposed to always float? i read through some of Al Campbells tying with CDC articles and can't figure out what happened. I did not add flotant or other liquids. did i maybe not use enough CDC? hope you can help me out

Warm Water

Hi,

What size hooks are you using? Are the hooks a light wire (i.e. a dry fly hook) or heavier guage (for sub-surface, or wet flies)? And, what pattern are you tying up? Does it use a copper wire rib, or something that might add extra weight?

- Jeff

size 16 light wire
Al's too simple mayfly dry

http://www.flyanglersonline.com/alcampb ... 41904.html

I'm using floss instead of punch yarn could that be it?

Matt

Hi,

Well, I'm no expert, and I've not used CDC myself. Still, a size 16 light wire hook should be ok I would think so I doubt that is the problem.

A bushy body helps trap air bubbles, which aids floatation, so it could be the floss body as it would produce a slimmer profile to cut through the surface tension, and it would not trap any air, and so would add less to the floatation.

Provided you're using an amount of CDC similar to that in the pattern instructions, then I would guess the floss body is the problem for the above reason. Tie up one with the punch yarn body, and see if that works. If you don't have punch yarn, then dub the body with hare's mask, or wool, or any other "bushy" dubbing material.

- Jeff

What about your leader size and/or presentation, type of water?

did not FF with them yet, I tested them in sink

Hi,

Beaverkill54 makes some good points! Were the flies sinking right away (first cast) or were they just eventually getting waterlogged and sinking? Was the water broken, riffles, or a smooth glide? Since I don't have any CDC flies, I'm not sure how they react in such conditions, but rough water can drown any dry fly. Riffles and such can also break the surface tension, making it difficult for a fly to stay suspended in the surface film.

Presentation can make a difference too. For example, if the presentation causes the fly to smash down on the water surface, it may just be getting forced under. I know I have to sometimes remember to ease back and delicately drop the fly rather than just smash it down.

- Jeff

P.S. I swear when I wrote this your post on testing them in the sink wasn't there!

WWFF,

Usually on a sz.16 dry I will use three tips of CDC and I will try not to use the stem of a feather. To avoid the stem simply cut off the tip anywhere from 1/4 to 3/4 inch and then pull up the fibers below the cut and there should be ample amount for making a fly float. I also use Frogs Fanny with the CDC -- I know you don't have to but it sure helps 'em ride high.

After catching a fish you'll need to wipe off the CDC with something (shirtsleeve, rag etc.) to get off the slime; fish will really gunk it up. Dry off the fly as good as possible, apply more Frogs Fanny, work it into the feather, and you are good to go.

With smaller flies I can usually get by with two feathers.

Good luck.

GReg

I use alot of cdc ... loop wing emergers under wings and parachute posts.That said I would imagine its the floss soaking up water or to heavy a wire hook .Try putting floatant on the body ... I never use floatant it on the cdc .After a fish has slimed my fly i usually rinse it ,spit on it, rinse it again ,pinch the water out on a samadou pad and shake in desiccant to dry .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Warm Water Fly Fisher

I'm using floss instead of punch yarn could that be it?

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Yes, that could be your problem. Unlike floss, punch yarn traps a lot of air and that pattern appears to need the boyancy of a body that has a lot of trapped air. CDC is not foam and there is not a lot of it in that pattern.

WWFF:

What everyone else said...

My initial CDC experience was similar UNTIL I added more CDC and started using Frog Fanny on the CDC puff.

I tie an emerger created by Shane Stalcup that uses D-Rib for the body. Nothing floats WORSE than D-Rib except maybe lead. In any case when I use these flies I do like gqualls and apply Frog Fanny on the CDC and the float I get is amazing, even in faster water.

As a result; despite the claims of CDC float-ability, I ALWAYS hit the puff with FF.

I second the use of Frog's Fanny. That stuff does a great job on CDC.

CDC is not a magic life preserver for flies. It's just a material that has natural oils to make it water repelent, and it's many barbules will trap a lot of air. (note: fur from a snow shoe rabbit foot has similar properties and is much more durable than CDC, look for a fly pattern called 'the usual' or BUM 'Bob's Usual Emerger.)

CDC comes in may grades and sizes and shapes. It could be that the CDC you have used is of a lower grade, or is not ideal for your application. Each size and shape CDC feather has it's own uses.

I find it takes more CDC to float a fly than it does with good hackle. I tie the CDC flies fairly bushy. I can always trim them back stream side if I need to.

Did you use a paste floatant? CDC doesn't respond well to liquid or paste floatants. The air trapping fibers get matted down and stop working. Use the Frog's Fanny.

The floss could be the problem, some floss will suck up a lot of water, try sealing the floss body with light coat of cement, or coating it with a paste floatant, just don't get any on the CDC.

Tails have a lot to do with floating ability. Make sure you are using good stiff tail fibers. Soft, weak or poorly shaped tails will sink a lot of bugs.

I am also suspect of the 'in the sink' tests. Some years ago I tried an experiment to see if pre-treated flies lasted longer. I tied up a half dozen flies, treated them each with a different floatant (leaving one untreated as a test case) I then placed them in a jar of water and waited. To my surprise they were all floating several days later, even the untreated one. Since this didn't mesh with my streamside experience I decided that gently placing them on top of the water was not simulating real life. So I started again, giving the jar a little shake, all of the flies sank like rocks. My conclusion is that the 'at home' tests don't really match the stream side conditions enough to give accurate results.

I think the real advantage of CDC it that you can dry a soaked fly more quickly. A few false casts and the fly will float again, you don't need to stop fishing to dry things out and apply floatant.

thanks all, will tie some more using your advice

Were they dyed or natural? Don't forget that to dye feathers they are first cleaned and degreased which can cancel out the natural oil. They then depend on the tiny barbules, branches of 'fluff' to trap air. They will still float but once wet they will not 'bob' back up. As others have said the tight compact floss body, or the not using enough CDC,.. isn't helping the situation. Try something else for the body, fine dubbing or, wrap some thin foam strips.

Hans Weilermann wrote a wonderful article for fly fisherman.com "Tying with CDC", about CDC and the four different type of feathers, that can be called CDC. Each type of CDC feather has a different use in fly tying.

[url=http://flyfisherman.com/ftb/hwcdc/:30e77]Han's Weilermann's "Tying with CDC" article[/url:30e77]

A while back, I converted the "Tying with CDC" from the above site to Adobe PDF format. If anyone wants a copy, I can transfer the file through an email. You can contact me at...

parnelli@comcast.net

If you discover that your CDC feathers are the problem, checkout Harry Mason (bones) website, http://www.troutflies.com/. He sells quality CDC feathers.

I really don't think your body material has anything to do with the none floatability of the fly. Your tail may be too short, but your CDC is probably the cause. Remember that what floats a catskill pattern is the tail and hackle. They spread the weight of the fly on the water as to not break the surface tension. On this style fly you actually want your body in the surface tension or below. That is what makes the fly more "realistic." You are relying on the tail and Wing for floatation. Try dunking your CDC feathers to see if they absorb water. If they do, that is your problem. Good luck.

Another twist with the CDC. You might see it mentioned if you read Hans' article or look up his pattern "CDC and Elk". Using that fly as a concept, I tie up a pattern similar to the one you mention, but with a wrapped CDC body, and use either CDC or snowshoe rabbit for the wing. I also tie my Usuals with the wrapped CDC body rather than the dubbed one. Another thing I do when using CDC for a wing on a dry or an emerger. Rather than tie in the whole feather, I strip the barbules off the stem and tie the bunch in just like I would deer hair.
Here's an example of one that I tie up though this one doesn't have the CDC tied in like deer hair.

http://www.danica.com/flytier/jcaruso/w ... _midge.htm