[url=http://www.fish.state.pa.us/:f3612]http://www.fish.state.pa.us/[/url:f3612] First article under "Press Releases"
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[url=http://www.fish.state.pa.us/:f3612]http://www.fish.state.pa.us/[/url:f3612] First article under "Press Releases"
Little Juniata33,,so what do you think about article? juniata carp are looking better,and better ,11 inch trout,0.58 oz in 2007
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make a rod, catch a fish
Please send your comments/opinions to: [url=http://www.state.pa.us/Fish/regcomments:811b2]www.state.pa.us/Fish/regcomments[/url:811b2]
ThePF&BC wants to eliminate barbless hook requirements in C&R waters. This has been repeatedly shown to increase trout mortality. Also they want to lift wading restrictions, especially in wild trout waters and this would likely decrease the amount af natural reproduction in these streams such as the historic LeTort Spring Run and Spring Creek to name a few.
Fishing pressure on these streams is year-round and intense as it is on most good water in populated areas. Wading/fishing restrictions in the fall spawning period and continued barbless hook requirements seem like a wise idea.
Trout are pretty much gone from stocked waters by july so pressure mounts on the C&R streams after that. Don't believe that C&R only is the answer in stocked streams because 1) The streams are marginal water quality (that's why they're stocked to begin with) and 2) poaching is rampant and uncontrolled so the majority of stocked trout are yanked out of "no-kill" water by summer also.
My Opinions:
Change to C&R FFO:
No effect. Virtually all of the law abiding anglers who use DH and Heritage special regs waters release everything anyway regardless of the likely hood that the fish will holdover for any period time, whether it be 2 more months or a whole year.
Poachers will still poach.
Changes to ATTT & TTALO:
Increase to 24" size limit = virtual C&R. 24" is a h@ll of a big fish. Only downside is year round creel.
New designation of C&R AT:
Ok. Most people who like C&R waters will end up useing flies and artificials anyhow.
Lifting of wading ban:
I'm ok with emilminating this rule for the time being. Needs further research.
Barbless hooks:
Fine, by me. Too many conflicting reports and opinions on the effectiveness of this rule.
Fishing hours:
Ok too. Might as well let the lawful anglers fish at night. The poachers have done it for years.
Overall I think that these regs are a good step towards developing and maintaining quality trout fisheries. PA still has a long way to go, but this is definately a start. Some may question putting C&R on stocked water (DHFFO), but for a fish commision that has a history of catering to meat fisherman any C&R regs are a welcome improvement.
Kev
I have to agree with Penn Kev. on the proposed changes, except for the barbless rule. I know that before I fly fished I didn't crimp barbs. I still don't on everything, but I have yet to loose a fish due to a hook not having a barb, IMHO. I think that the idea of a barbless hook is great in that it can really reduce the amount of handling a fish will receive. The no wading change may be a bad idea too, but only time will tell. One thing I would really like to see the PFBC do, is to take more of the moneys from trout stamps and fishing licenses and put them towards improving and preserving wild fish populations, whether they be cold or warm water fishes. Stocking is a necessary evil, but I think it has been used poorly.
Jeff
Wading on the Letort and Big Spring IS permitted but anyone who has tried it either knows why no one does it, or is STILL stuck in the silt.
I already sent my comments to the Fish Commission and urge anyone who cares to do so as well. The attempt by the PAF&BC to open the Delayed Harvest Fly Fishing Only waters to all tackle during the harvest period was met with such overwhelming opposition that they bagged the idea. I guess that means they listen to angler comments, sort of.
While I don?t have too many issues with the proposed changes I do think that allowing wading on the Heritage Stretch of the Little Lehigh will be a disaster. Even though I abhor the place; it does offer a refuge to catch fish when the water is freezing and I and many others don?t feel like wading. Unfortunately the place already is courtesy challenged and if they open it to wading, I expect it will be the best place in PA to catch a good fight; sort of like going from FFO to WWF. I am personally going to see if the City of Allentown will intervene since they own the stream property.
The barbless hook thing is more about @$$holes and less about barbs. I have seen just as many idiots that are clueless when it comes to playing and releasing fish using barbless hooks as barbed.
I just wish PA would leave what works alone and at least leave the 7 Heritage Waters alone. It?s only seven creeks, how difficult can that be to manage? Or better yet go back to the old Limestone Springs designation that covered only the Letort, Big Springs and Falling Springs. These three are truly the most unique creeks in the state and like them or not they do have a special heritage and history that should afford them a special regulation.
I agree with Bamboozle on the issue with
the Letort,Big Spring and Falling Spring.
These streams should be more priority then
any other mainly because of the history and the unique ecosystems they are. I have sent
my opinions to the Fish Commission hopeing
it will make a difference. As for the Little Lehigh it should be left alone just the way it is.There are alot of anglers there handicap or not who really appreciate the no wadding regulations. After all these
years why change. Is the Fish Commission really that mad about the closing of Big Spring Hatchery to go this far and distroy the Heritage Waters for good?
what has T U been doing about this proposal.are all that post here from Pa. belong to T U ?
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make a rod, catch a fish
[This message has been edited by buildsrods (edited 17 March 2005).]
https://www.state.pa.us/papower/cwp/vie ... 38140&PM=1 tell The PF&BC what you think,,its easy and might do more good than us talking here. dont mean we shouldn't post here.
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make a rod, catch a fish
[This message has been edited by buildsrods (edited 17 March 2005).]
Here's the URL to PATU's response to the proposed changes. However, this response from TU is outdated (Feb.) and some of the proposals have been changed since this letter written.
[url=http://www.patrout.org/Proposed_Regulations_Changes.htm:5f431]http://www.patrout.org/Proposed_Regulations_Changes.htm[/url:5f431]
Penn. Kev , what do you think of T u position on the changes,,,i am not trying to be a smart a,,.... but i cant get a real handle on whats going on...call it old age or simple minded.. thanks
BR,
As of the Febuary letter, TU's main concern was the potential of C&R waters to be reclassified into Trophy Trout waters which currently allow creeling of fish over 16".
TU supports putting the Heritage Trout and DHFFO regs into a general C&R FFO reg. This is great for TU as it gives them a foothold to fight for more C&R regs.
Other than that, they they seemed to be fine with the removal of wading restrictions, barbless laws, and limited fishing hours. The effectiveness of these laws is debatable, but I suspect TU will not complain about eliminating these regs as long as C&R is being increased (either through outright C&R regs or more tightly restricting harvest).
Since the time of PATU's response, the PAFBC has changed to a proposed 24" minimum 1 fish per day on TT waters. Effectively creating more C&R waters.
IMO, TU should be very satisfied with the current proposal. Especially if the newly proposed 24" min size on TT waters goes through.
Under the current proposal, the only problem TU should have is with some TT and C&R remaining open to bait rather than having ALL C&R and TT become ALO.
Kev
Penn .Kev thanks,,thats what i was getting out of the PATU letter, But its sort of a sell out because for years tu preached wading restrictions, barbless laws, thanks again.Do to health problems havent been to tu meetings this winter...
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make a rod, catch a fish
BR,
I think it's a good political move to let the PAFBC drop the barbless, and wading rules. It shows that TU is willing to compromise.
Kev
Bamboozle - Don't know what you found out about the City of Allentown and the elimination of the wading ban on the Little Lehigh, but I'll share a little inside info with you. If this proposal passes, the Parks Dept will simply post it as no wading. They don't want a circus there and won't allow it to happen.
By the way, we met at the Sommerset show, and I have to thank you for starting my obsession to get one of those beautiful Dreamcatcher rods. I must have read the brochure a hundred times........
Heritage:
I wrote a letter to Allentown City Council and the Parks Department which goes into the mail today expressing my feelings about the circus-to-be if the regs get changed. I also mentioned to them about the 24 hour fishing which should interest them since all City parks close at sunset.
I don't where this will go but at least I put in my two cents to them. I also am thinking about seeing if the fly shop will get a petition going to send to Council as well. I only fish there when it's cold so I DON'T have to wade. I'll keep you posted.
If we met it must have been at Somerset in 2004. I skipped this year and have no plans on going back for 20 years; talk about a zoo! If you're from Catty maybe I met you at the Little Lehigh or in Carlisle; I'm at both places frequently. As a matter of fact I may be headed to the Little Lehigh today. But I am the proud owner of two Dreamcatcher's. If you are interested get a deposit together soon as Wyatt is getting very backlogged and of course prices are going up as well.
I don't think it would really be all that bad if they allow wading in the heritage section of the little lehigh. They allow wading in the rest of the stream(which holds a good number or wild fish as well) and there really isn't a problem, that I have found. Yes, I agree, there is a definate lack of consideration for other anglers present on certain days, but I let those that do it how I feel. Allowing fishing 24hours a day would, in my opinion, be great. There are more than a few very large brown trout in that creek, and it would present some interesting opportunities for the savvy angler. I really don't like to see any stream become a circus, but in the long run I don't think this will happen. Of course it will definately force many to explore other parts of the creek, but that isn't always a bad thing.
Tight lines
Jeff
The general consensus among the knowledgeable regulars and those in the know is that it won?t happen on the Little Lehigh. The City apparently won?t let anyone tell them what to do with their property.
We?ll see what happens
was out looking for varnish at 3 local hardware stores today that sell fishing licenses,,thy was saying sales were way down for trout stamps , don't know if that means any thing.
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make a rod, catch a fish
Wait till it gets warm and closer to Opening Day, they'll be sold out. It's the $60.00 out of state licenses that will be collecting dust.
Gas prices are going to hurt, took a ride along the Little Juniata this afternoon, beautiful day, not one fisherman on 3 miles of beautiful water. 24" ain't gonna work either, guy owns a nice stretch of the regulated water, guys kid catches a 23 inch trout, bigger than dad, granddad or great grandad ever caught, kid bonks the fish over the head and the WCO walks up, What happens?
[This message has been edited by Little Juniata33 (edited 18 March 2005).]
Whoa, Penn Kev!
Conflicting reports about barbless vs barbed hooks?!
This will settle the issue for you;
IF you took two #10 hooks, one barbed and one barbless, shoved them through the skin on YOUR forearm up to the bend, then got your forceps and pulled them out backwards,
which one would do more tissue damage?
Also wading in streams where trout naturally reproduce DOES mateer. Have you ever even seen a trout over a redd full of eggs? They have enough problems from raccoons, herrons,weather, etc. They don't need your studded Aqua-soled feet crushing the next generation of trout into oblivion. People, just stay outta the streams between Oct. and Dec.
As far as Pa TU goes, can you remember back one year ago when they took NO POSITION at all over the baitfishing in delayed harvest water? That showed me they have no guts. The PFBC doesn't need to change anything. There's nothing wrong with things the way they are. They keep trying to justify their independent (from the game comiss) existence by constantly changing things.
compromise= a fancy word for sell out,,preach long enough that barbless hooks save fish then all of a sudden if the PF&BC says its ok, then it must be ok,,, this old boy will speak with his wallet.
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make a rod, catch a fish
kbobb,
First, your example of hooking your finger proves nothing other than the fact that hooks hurt when you jam them into your skin. It does not prove that barbed hooks cause a significant loss of fish. By significant I mean more than 5% greater than C&R without barless hooks. Even a 5% difference in mortality can be attributed to inconsistencies between how, when, and where the cases were studied.
TU realizes that the best way to ensure the conservation of trout is more C&R, lower dayly limits, and higher minimum sizes. I think TU realizes that barbless is a regulation that further enhances C&R rather than being a regulation that saves a significant number of trout by itself. We need more C&R waters first before we finely tune the regulations.
I do agree that wading over redds is problem, but current wading restriction are only in place on a few relativley small stretches of stream. If they must ban wading, do it on large stretches of many streams where it will make a significant difference based on solid scientific study, not just here, there, and anywhere. No wading could be a great reg to protect fragile trout populations but it is my opinion that the current regulation is misused and under utilized. Thus, I support TU when they agree to let it be eliminated.
The PAFBC may not "need" to change things. But remember, they have proposed these rules on their own with no direct influence from TU. The new regs increase C&R areas and reduce the harvest of fish on other waters. TU sees this as a golden opprotunity and supports it as much as possible.
To put it bluntly, which would you rather have: More C&R and stricter harvest or More barbless and no wading? For me it is an easy choice and I don't think you can have more of both at the same time.
I think TU wants to do as little as possible to gum up the works. TU can see the forest through the trees, so to speak. TU needs to nudge and direct the PAFBC, not fight them at every turn, especially when the changes favor C&R in general. This is as much politics as it is trout management.
As for fighting the proposed summer bait regulation on DHALO. What does it matter to TU? They would gain almost nothing for the conservation of wild trout. Additionally, many members of the PAFBC did not even support this change. The proposal was made to appease a backwards and half-@ssed organiztion, Traditional Anglers of PA.
The public outcry squashed that proposed change handily. That said, I would not be surpised if public opinion torpedoes the newly proposed 24" size limit on tropy trout waters. I don't know how likely it is, but I wouldn't be surpised if it happens.
BR,
Sell out? Maybe, but remember that TU is mostly ff'ers and we are in an incredibily small minority. We cannot stronge arm the PAFBC. This goes back to politics.
Kev
Penn. Kev, would you care to post your connection to PaTU so that we might understand your defense of this organization. every one is entitled to a opinion .me I'm just a old coot that fished pa. trout for 50 years,belong to TU,but don't buy into can see the forest for the trees deal. Thank You
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make a rod, catch a fish
Everyone is indeed entitled to their opinion. You, yourself, have asked for it and I have given it. Nothing more, nothing less.
I support my local TU whenever I can with stocking projects, small donations, purchasing raffle tickets, etc. I have no contacts with TU officals at the state level.
I do feel vary strongly that this is a good move on TU's part regardless of the motivation behind it. In my eyes, what is gained will be more valuable than what is given up.
Kev
[This message has been edited by Penn. Kev (edited 20 March 2005).]
Penn. Kev, I value your opinion,guess thats why i am frank with my questions to you. need all sides to form a opinion on this subject. you spell out your thoughts , i may not agree with you but i respect your answers. thanks again
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make a rod, catch a fish
Cool.